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It is all about audio


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gators5
MagicJack User


Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: It is all about audio Reply with quote

I think millions of words have been written on this site about how to solve Magic Problems. What other business would be in business more than 30 seconds if it had the complaints seen here. Just hope Congress doesn't offer a bail out.
I've had Jack since June and have done everything suggested to fix the problem of choppy audio, except go out and buy another piece of equipment to make it work. It would be like going out and buying a new TV or a new car and someboady saying you have to buy another thing to make it work.
I convinced my DSL provider it was their modem that was cauing the problem. Got a new and different kind of modem and guess what, it wasn't.
I've run speed test and they say things should be fine, but they are not.
I wanted this to work. Cancelled my landline phone service. Did all the work arounds. Talked endless times to their cusotmer service people. They even sent me a new jack.
Took it to the west coast and tried it on another computer with the same results--choppy audio, echos, etc
I still have echos and choppy audio. Not everyday, but most days.
When you consider most people who will buy Jack are trying to save money. Their computer knowledge consists of knowing how to turn it and off, doing email and Word, how will they ever make Jack work?
If you see a line outside of Radio Shack or Best Buy, it is probably people returning Jack. It may only be $19.95, but you have a greater chance of success buying a lottery ticket.
Unless I can find a solution soon, Jack goes in the draw and I'm back with the phone company
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: It is all about audio Reply with quote

gators5 wrote:
Unless I can find a solution soon, Jack goes in the draw and I'm back with the phone company


I think a lot of choppy audio is due to MJ overselling capacity in some regions. I have no choppy audio in Phx. I got a 2nd jack in another location and it has choppy audio connecting to the proxy server associated with that area code. Last night I blocked my local proxy to force it to go somewhere else. It connected to San Francisco. Calls were choppy.

I was thinking about blocking each proxy one at a time and write a summary of the audio quality I find with each proxy.

Mark
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also in the West, Washington and the audio is bad. Up until a few months ago it ran pretty good most the time but not all my calls are getting echo and choppiness and I too may have to break down and pay for a REAL PHONE!-Dan the man has oversold this thing and has not kept up on it.
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gators5
MagicJack User


Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: I live in the shadow of Jack's office and it doesn't work Reply with quote

I live where Jack is located and I would think if there is one place in world where Jack's service would be stellar it would be here. I wonder if anyone who works at Jack ever uses it.
They advertise that all you have to do is plug it into your computer and like magic you can make calls just like you are use to using landline except they are free. However, if you read post after post from ordinary people trying to get what they paid for to work and they can't. If people with a high level of computer knowledge consistently write in about doing this modification and that modification and still have numerous problems, what is the ordinary Joe to do?
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sligg111
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: It is all about audio Reply with quote

gators5 wrote:
I think millions of words have been written on this site about how to solve Magic Problems. What other business would be in business more than 30 seconds if it had the complaints seen here. Just hope Congress doesn't offer a bail out.
I've had Jack since June and have done everything suggested to fix the problem of choppy audio, except go out and buy another piece of equipment to make it work. It would be like going out and buying a new TV or a new car and someboady saying you have to buy another thing to make it work.
I convinced my DSL provider it was their modem that was cauing the problem. Got a new and different kind of modem and guess what, it wasn't.
I've run speed test and they say things should be fine, but they are not.
I wanted this to work. Cancelled my landline phone service. Did all the work arounds. Talked endless times to their cusotmer service people. They even sent me a new jack.
Took it to the west coast and tried it on another computer with the same results--choppy audio, echos, etc
I still have echos and choppy audio. Not everyday, but most days.
When you consider most people who will buy Jack are trying to save money. Their computer knowledge consists of knowing how to turn it and off, doing email and Word, how will they ever make Jack work?
If you see a line outside of Radio Shack or Best Buy, it is probably people returning Jack. It may only be $19.95, but you have a greater chance of success buying a lottery ticket.
Unless I can find a solution soon, Jack goes in the draw and I'm back with the phone company


I gave up on MJ several months ago. I have been using Ooma for three months now and I have had no problems, not one. Voice quality is excellent and there is no echo.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats OOMA? How much?
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saxman wrote:
Whats OOMA? How much?


Be careful. Ooma seems a bit "off" to me because it requires you to pay a significant amount for a device up front, and then free calls. That sounds like the definition of a "Ponzi" scheme. The only way they can pay for your free calls in 2-3 years is if more Ooma customers are buying the hardware.

Or, more likely, there's a gimmick with the hardware. They'll just send it a signal to begin flashing its lights and stop functioning when you've consumed $250 worth of "free calls". You call tech. support and learn your hardware must be broken, so you need to buy a new device. (I.e., using the device as the vehicle to buy prepaid service without disclosing what the per-minute rate is.).

I could be wrong. But, we all know you don't get something for nothing. It's either an unsustainable business model. Or, there's a gimmick.

MJ is gimmicky too. But, at least the gimmicks are more visible. You know when Dan's picking your pocket. And, even if MJ is too good to be true, you only stand to lose $20 or so. Not hundreds of $$.

Mark
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW: If you (saxman) or Gator5 are considering switching to a different service, talk to Lisa and/or Holman. They were looking at Skype. They sounded like it was the best deal they could find (feature for feature replacement for MJ). They had some ideas about hardware to use.

Mark
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ooma.com/
I just checked it out. It looks like a solid company from silicon valley. They do charge you a 1 time fee of $250.00 for the hardware but it does have some nice benefits. You don't need your computer running for it to work. It needs your internet conection but not the pc running, which is nice. I listened to their test voice and it sounded real clear. On the downside, they charge you $39.00 if you want to keep your current number and there is a 3000 minute limit per month for outgoing phone calls. I'm glad there is an option here and if this one continues to suck, I'll be switching. It's $250.00 up front but nothing more after-that's it. They do give you a 30 day trial on this also. I'd say Dan needs to clean up this line or he's going to be losing customers to this and other companies. Ooma makes more money from selling their premier programs as well as international calling time. It's explained in their FAQ.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just sent this message to Dan Barsilow, the owner as well as Mike Shippey the head of tech support and two other support people.

There is a lot of people complaining now about the sound quality of MJ-I have had mine for more then 1 year and this just started a few months ago-echos and choppiness is now normal. I've tried all the little fixes and updates and most people blame it on overloaded servers. Is this right and when will you fix it? thanks Rob-Vancouver Wa.

I'll post any answers I get-
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Melman
MagicJack Contributor


Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 53
Location: Centralia, Washington

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have come here to the Unofficial magicJack Forums almost everyday reading and understanding about what other MJ users are experiencing. I have used MJ since May of 2008 and maybe I am just one those lucky ones that MJ has been great with a positive experience. I read some of the reviews before buying the MJ device and after using it, I have read continuously the forums to make sure my setup is optimal for MJ. I have two telephones like everyone here or today has, your home phone and a mobile phone. My Mj is now my home phone, but only use it primarily to make phone calls and not tie minutes on my mobile phone, and I use my mobile phone primarily when I am away from home. I think most people do this. For the price i am paying for the MJ device, I can afford to every once in awhile to have one of those internet glitches or other computer malfunctions and I have my backup mobile phone to use. Reading about the Ooma device, I am hearing that the company is having some financial difficulties, so i am happy with my cheap inexpensive MJ phone and my backup mobile phone.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Iv had mine since the first time they came out in 07'. I have also been able to put up with the ocassional glitch and bad call from time to time but now the calls are constantly giving me echo and clicking and cutting out. People are complaing to me and I also use a cell phone when needed but this MJ has been my primary. If it dosen't start sounding better I will have to quit. As far as the other guys in trouble, I don't know but the user reviews are all real good and the sound quality is near perfect. I guess you get what you pay for, sometimes. I do have one of the original MJ devices so I may need a new one-a 3rd generation but they make you pay for another year of service to get it set up. I just got an email from Dan, he's checking it out.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: It is all about audio Reply with quote

az2008 wrote:
I was thinking about blocking each proxy one at a time and write a summary of the audio quality I find with each proxy


I just changed my proxy a few times (by blocking proxies as described on the wiki FAQ). It was interesting.

Tonight the proxy associated with my area code (phoenix) was a bit choppy. That was unusual.

Blocked it. Went to San Francisco and it was pretty good. (Although last night or the other night it was choppy).

Blocked it. Went to Tampa. Not too bad.

Blocked it. Went to Houston. Bad.

Blocked it. Went to Sacramento. Really bad.

Blocked it. Went to Minneapolis. Really good.

Blocked it. Went to Cleveland. Really bad.

Blocked it. Went to Las Vegas. Bad.

The network hops (tracert) were all about the same. No big differences. (Although Cleveland was a bit bad.).

I found a few times that calling the echo test number another time or two gave better results.

Las Vegas surprised me. Very good hops (tracert). But, bad audio. At one point it sounded like I was talking into a can.

Someone said they believe the majority of audio-quality complaints are due to bad network routing (an ISP problem). But, I've used MagicJack from multiple locations in South America. It worked just as well as using it in Phoenix. That was with 250-350ms ping times.

I think it's MJ either overselling their capacity. Or, lack of quality control.

Mark
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your right-I'm talking to Dan right now via email and he just told me to get rid of the Tiger Jet Echo Cancellation software I have running. He said it was killing me. Now that's strange as I was told that the 1st generation MJ devices had no anti echo built in like the newer ones. When these first came out we all installed the Tiger Jet and it worked. Maybe it's not needed now. But that's just the echo problem. What about the choppiness and static in the calls?
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ-I'm going to forward your post to Dan-see what he says-
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saxman wrote:
I think your right-I'm talking to Dan right now via email and he just told me to get rid of the Tiger Jet Echo Cancellation software I have running.


Good luck. Keep in mind that you don't really know who you're talking to. Dan has a few email mistresses who monitor his various email addresses. You could be talking to a knucklehead.

Mark
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think so. I've had this same one since 07 and it's coming from his Blackberry. Also, he's talking too much tech to be from some lackey. I can tell by his writing style-He gets right to the point.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Dan added a few comments that did no good and no help at all for my lousy audio. I just read alot of good reviews on Ooma-The thing sounds better then a landline-You pay $250.00 and that covers it for life. Nothing more to buy. So, time to save money and get a phone that works. Unless MJ improves in the next month, I'm gone. They are not improving the audio like they should and that's just bad business.I have tried all the tricks and after having MJ for more then 2 years, I have had lots of patience. I know not to try making calls while doing big downloads or running any other resourse hungry programs. I keep my system clean and my internet dsl speed is good-My dl speed is 7mbps and there is no reason that the phone should have so many problems other then just too many people using it. So, greed wins the day once again and we all pay with inferior service.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI: See this important update to QoS and how MJ apparently has expanded the port range it uses: http://www.phoneservicesupport.com/post30426.html#30426

This could explain people's perceptions that call quality has deteriorated lately. If they use QoS and specify the vms1/RTP port range 10000-20000, their quality could go very bad if the actual port MJ uses is above that range (as I observed on one call).

This may explain my observations last night when I changed proxies. I said different calls using the same proxy had different quality. Some of those calls may have been connecting to ports outside the range that was previously understood to be MJ's port range.

However, I don't think it explains everything. I know "Saxman" uses Hawking Broadband Booster. I think it configures itself, and isn't like Tomato users who create custom rules, with a port range, etc. This change in MJ operation shouldn't affect Hawking users.

Mark
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW: If MJ opened it's vms1/RTP port range by another 10k ports, that might correlate to perceptions of decreased voice quality and suggestions MJ oversold capacity.

For example, it appears MJ has multiple servers at each region which are load balanced by something like BigIP. (See http://www.phoneservicesupport.com/post27288.html#27288). The softphone connects to proxy1, but the load balancer really connects you to proxy2-5 (?).

There appear to be vms1 through n servers at those different locations too.

So, let's say MJ oversold capacity during the holiday season. The easiest way to provide for more users would be to allow an additional 10k connections per server. Instead of port 10000-20000, make it 10000-30000.

That's just a theory. Maybe there's another reason for them to increase the range.

Or, maybe it was always 10000-30000 but there was never enough connections in the past to cause anyone to connect above 20000. That level of activity didn't occur until recently? We just always saw 10000-20000 and assumed that was a rule.

Maybe it could go to 10000-40000 (or 50000) and the activity doesn't exist yet to see connections in that upper range?

I have a feeling this new information about vms1/RTP connections above port 20000 signifies something about increased load.

Mark
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free2talk
MagicJack Expert


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 80
Location: LA,CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am thinking of moving too.
The sound quality varies for every call and after trying all the 'fixes' it doesnt work.Sound quality is choppy at times with some echo.
At times it works ok.So it could be a load thing and mj must have oversold its capacity.
One more possibility could be the new software upgrade which no one wanted.It was working fine before that...
My internet speed is 6 MBps and i had vonage before this with no problems ever.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See AZ -the way I see it, we shouldn't need to go through all those moves with port changes and constant upgrades and making settings changes on my pc. I added the broadband booster as well as a switch and that was about another $60.00 for extra hardware just to get a better audio signal. So, now that's not working and I'm getting a choppy, echo with occasional jitters type sound and I raised my internet speed which is also more money. So, where does it end? At what point do we simply say "fix the phone MJ!" I'm there now. After talking to Dan last night he only said that everyone has echo. I know thats not right and I don't know why he would even say that. I went along time with none-The real, honest answer should be that they have more people using this thing and less resources to handle it. I've been a loyal fan of MJ since 07' but now, unless it gets fixed, I'm gone. I'll get Ooma.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saxman wrote:
the way I see it, we shouldn't need to go through all those moves with port changes and ...


It may have been a mistake for me to specify a port range in the QoS/Tomato how-to. I've heard complaints about using Layer 7 to classify traffic because it's applied to all traffic. Tomato will only apply the Layer 7 filter after the other tests are done (protocol, source or destination IP or MAC addr, or src/dest port). I was trying to make it a little more efficient.

But, when I worked with the Layer 7 guy to improve the RTP filter, he said something about it only applying to the packet opening the connection. I've sent a question to him to clarify that. If it's true that it is only applied when a packet is opened, then there's not much reason to specify a port range.

Plus, the broader the port range, the less useful it is to specify it. Now that it's 20k ports, it's looking less useful.

I'll test different proxies again tonight and see what I notice. I still have some choppiness on my default Phoenix proxy today. The QoS change didn't fix that much.

I found the magic "quality" word is "math-a-matical." When I say that into the echo test number, if there's a lot of choppiness it always cuts out on the last syllable "cal." All I hear is "mathamati."

I agree with you that right now MJ is just a novelty. It's for people who like dorking around with stuff like this. It would be nice if Dan took it more seriously than he does. I don't hold out much hope for that.

I wouldn't choose Ooma for the reasons stated earlier in this thread. It will be interesting to see how you and Mr. Sligg feel about it in 2-3 years (and, the box "breaks" and you have to buy a new one, which turns out to be a $100-per-year phone service).

Mark
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, right now I would glady pay $100.00 a year for a reliable, clear, clean sounding phone every time I use it. No more hit and miss and no more making excuses to people for the bad audio they experience on the other end. A good phone means never having to say your sorry for the lousy sounds. lol Hey-Dan should use that line. When it was 1 bad sounding call out of 10, I could live with that. But now it's a bad sounding call every time. On one end or the other the signal breaks down. And yes, Dan should be worried about this a little more then he is. The compatition is growing and improving and he's not. No way to treat your company.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saxman wrote:
Well, right now I would glady pay $100.00 a year for a reliable, clear, clean sounding phone every time I use it.


There's nothing wrong with that. I'd just rather make that choice a little more clearly than a $250 "one-time" hardware investment (with no additional charges after that) when the company may go under, can't provide indefinite phone service for $250, and may use the hardware as a surrogate for buying time at an undisclosed per-minute rate.

It has the ring of untruthfulness like a lot of Dan's behaviors. The difference is, there's not as much money at risk with Dan.

Mark
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooma-I did a lot of reading on it last night and read about their past finacial problems and reason for that. They originally were charging around $500.00 for the hardware and service. They discoverd real quick that people won't pay that for any phone. Not up front in one shot for a new start-up company. So, they dropped it to $250.00 and business is booming. They are signing up people at a fast pace. It helps that they are selling the device at Walmart, Best Buy and alot of other places. Mj has Radio Shack. But, I think these guys are on solid ground and after reading all the user reviews it seems that about 90% of thier customers are completely satisfied with the sound quality.

They do some problems still with tech support not being around or impossible to get a hold of. So, that's a definet drawback. And the other big complaint is the way the phone is sold. They say unlimited calls but in fact they have put a 3000 minute per month limit on the call time. This would be plenty for me but for a family thats sharing the line it could be a problem. Also, they have you sign papers saying that they have the right to terminate your contract if you go over the time limit! Like kick you off and keep the 250. Before I sign up for that program I want to get that part worked out. Thats pretty rude thing to do. I don't know if we still have a 30 minute limite here or if that was yanked. These guys can't sell these with a unlimited minutes then turn around and drop calls at 30 or worse kick you off completely-I sent Ooma an email asking about that and I haven't heard anything back yet. The part about slacker tech support may be true!
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saxman wrote:
But, I think these guys are on solid ground and after reading all the user reviews it seems that about 90% of thier customers are completely satisfied with the sound quality.


Keep in mind that's how Ponzi schemes work. Everyone thinks the person operating the scheme is on solid ground as long as they're getting the great deal which, on paper, shouldn't be possible. A few weeks ago, everyone who invested in Madoff thought he was on solid ground too. "The Jewish T-Bill."

Do what you want. There always has to be risk takers in everything.

For me, it doesn't add up. You never get something for nothing. It's either an unsustainable business model which relies on newcomers to fund the expense of your ongoing usage. Or, there's a gimmick (such as, they have a way to control the lifespan of the "one-time" hardware you purchase, as a surrogate to enforce a per-minute rate).

Good luck.

Mark
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gators5
MagicJack User


Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: Why we bought it Reply with quote

Most people who bought MJ aren't computer whizzes. They didn't buy it as mentioned in a previous post "to just dork around". They bought it because it was sold as reliable phone service. Plug and call almost.
Sure wished it lived up to its promise.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ-I just got another reply from Dan-I won't post the whole thing but they made some more changes yesterday and the sytem should be more stable today. He said there's a new "fix" coming within the next few days also. He got my address and is sending me a new unit! Told me to get rid of the anti-echo software.

As for Ooma, I can't understand your mistrust of these guys. Why would anyone that has a hot product selling as fast as they can make them, want to go out of business and rip everyone off. They have the units selling at Walmart and that's not an easy thing to do. Why would they bother to bring in the biggest chain in the world to sell their product just to do a "ponzi scam"? Makes no sense at all.

Like I said from reading their history, they were struggling at first because they overpriced the units. Now they are affordable and they have a huge amount of happy customers. To fold up now would be just plain stupid. I think your $250.00 is super safe. Have you looked at their site? Go to the FAQ and look at the question about "how do you make your money"?They sell International long distance minutes as well as other calling programs that have more features. The $250.00 is the bottom program. They offer more expensive ones with alot more features. They explain it well in the site. These guys have gotten set up in the top stores in America and they aren't going anywhere but up!
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ-I forwarded your post last night on the different ports to Dan and I just got another reply about that from him --Here it is


Tell them to all try now and tonight and stop playing.There audio quality will be best closer to where they live.

That is a given.

Dan
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free2talk
MagicJack Expert


Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 80
Location: LA,CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be wary of 'lucky you' fixes coming your way.
The last fix was the main culprit as everything worked fine before.
All they have to do is to enable us to go back to the last version.

The amount of time spent on making this thing work has been insane....
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Proxy test Reply with quote

I ran the same test I did last night. Things sounded better. I don't know if it's because I fixed my QoS to include ports 20000-300000, or if it has to do with what "saxman" learned that Dan "experimented" on us again.

A couple things I observed:

1. The quality had very little to do with the quality of tracert .

2. Choppiness seems to be tied to the "squelch" that MJ uses to blank out low audio and conserve bandwidth.

It seems to me that when you connect to a RTP/vms server, it may carryover the volume/squelch of the previous call. I found that some calls were "choppy" when I pronounced "math-e-mati-i-cal". It would lose the last syllable "cal".

But, if I yelled into the microphone "Dan SUCKS!!!" a couple times, I could speak with a very low (or average) volume "mathematical" and it was *perfect*.

A few proxies had different qualities per call, but I could bring a bad call into a good one by screaming "Dan SUCKS!!!". That seemed to set the "squelch" to a different level.

The only time it didn't work was with the Seattle proxy. It was really bad. No amount of screaming fixed it.

This is what I found:

Quote:
Phoenix - a little choppy (good tracert)

San Francisco - good (bad tracert)

Tampa - a little choppy (mediocre tracert)

Houston - good (good tracert)

Sacremento - good (good tracert)

Minneapolis - excellent (good tracert)

Cleveland - good (bad trarcert)

Las Vegas - good (excellent tracert)

Miami - Excellent (excellent tracert)

Altlanta - Excellent (good tracert)

Seattle - Very bad (excellent tracert)

Mark


Last edited by az2008 on Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as live about 100 miles from Seattle, for it to be choppy makes sense. Thats how my calls sound.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:25 am    Post subject: The strange response from the main man Reply with quote

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate him sending me a new unit. The one I now have is 3 years old. One of the 1st generation device's and there's a slight chance that the audio will improve when I plug in the new one. Since Dan said to check the call quality again last night, whatever they did seems to have worked. It's sounding alot better and they may have located the problem, whatever it is/was. The whole thing is really confusing and I think MJ should come on here and post some sticky Wiki about problems they are working on and the current fix for others. In other words why not keep us all in the techno loop and post any new fixs they come up with. There's no reason for all this back and forth about the same problem when the fix is available already but not been accesible to us dumb customers.

After we all kept talking about various audio problems we were having on last nights exchange, the system is suddenly repaired and Dan says they did some kind of upgrade to it. Why wait until people are pulling their hair out to tackle a problem? None of these echos and/ or choppiness issues are new. I've been complainig about them on and off for the whole 2 and half years I've been running MJ-Most the time the problem goes away but here lately it's not and this has me worried. If he majority of my calls start to sound like a 3rd world phone system again, then I say ADIOS!-Keep your fingers crossed that this latest fix will keep the audio at an acceptable level of choppiness and feedback-lolWe may have to develop our own bad audio rating system just for this forum-

Just for fun-Out of ten calls, how many are really clear, like near landline quality? I don't expect MJ to be as good as a landline, it's just supposed to be better then a cell phone. I'd say that about half my calls have interference-some kind of echo or clicking or choppiness starts up during the call. I find the local calls are normally cleaner sounding. How's things in your area? Some areas are worse then others.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ- Dan said for us not to "play with" the system. He was refering to your port changes and tests. I'm thinking that he's worried that people will try to "fix" this audio on their own and screw it up real good, which really is a possibilty for many, maybe me. So, that's when he said this

"There is also a bug fix coming out within 10 days that will continue to improve the service."-

Now that's some real good news and if it's stable and dependable I'll be overjoyed. Not only will I have my new generation MJ in the mail in a day or two but they possible have a solution/ fix to the choppiness and echo monster I've been battling. Sure hope so becuase I'm losing friends. People don't enjoy calling me when they get all this feedback and audio breakdown. I'm keepin the faith for now and I won't spend a dime more on any system until this is tested and working great. Ooma has it's own set of problems like NO TECH SUPPORT IN THE HOUSE!
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

saxman wrote:
AZ- Dan said for us not to "play with" the system. He was referring to your port changes and tests.


The softphone is designed to "fail over" to a different proxy if it can't connect to whichever regional server it tries to use. Common network commands to make a network address inaccessible so that the softphone does what it's designed to do doesn't strike me as "playing with it."

But, he is right that there's a risk users will do something like make a route "persistent" and forget about it.

During the last upgrade someone posted a solution to the error that kept popping up for the softphone. Add the URL to Internet Explorer's "blocked" sites. It worked. But, a lot of people may have left that in their browser. It might block ads forever. Or, it might block other things like an upgrade.

Another example is my write up on QoS saying to use port 10000-20000. Dan starts using ports above 20000 and thousands of people's call quality deteriorates from "Highest" priority to "Lowest."

I sympathize with him. These things can have negative consequences. Thousands of people contacting chat support who has no way of knowing whether someone has blocked talk4free.com in IE, or has persistent routes, or QoS rules causing MJ traffic to be *lowest* priority.

I try to make it clear that people who use solutions like QoS have to be responsible for remembering to examine it if their quality deteriorates. But, even I forgot my own advice the other night when quality was hit and miss. I wouldn't have noticed MJ was using ports in the 20000+ range if I hadn't investigated that guy's solution for Linksys's buggy firmware.

So, I sympathize with Dan's concerns. And, I'm glad he seems to be concerned with the user experience. I just hope he has as much concern for how *he* affects users as for how users may affect themselves. Smile

saxman wrote:
he said this "There is also a bug fix coming out within 10 days that will continue to improve the service."


I'm going to block access to upgrade.talk4free.com the same way proxies can be blocked and see if that prevents me from being upgraded. I'd like to see if that works, and have the opportunity to let the upgrade occur at a time it will affect me the least (i.e., not when I have a conference call in 10.).

Mark
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm done trying tricks and all the hoop jumping. Once I get the new one hooked up and the number called in, that bugger better sound like ATAT from their front yard to their back! lol I want a great audio signal from the new one. I have the Broadband Booster and the Linkseys router right below it running.
Here's a good one for ya. Two days ago I ran my Norton 05 scan and it found 3 virus's on here!!It was not able to remove them though so I installed the free home addition of Avast Anti-Virus software It loaded and scanned just fine and even removed the virus's but then something happened. When I rebooted it would not go back online!-I couldn't get on using Internet Explorer and I called MSN-The woman starts getting pissed because she can't hear me through the bad call quality of MJ-

Now-how could I even be getting the phone line to work if I have no internet connection? It said right there on my screen-you have no internet connection yet I'm using the MJ!! Most peculaiar indeed!-So, the tech woman tells me I have conflict between the two AV programs-I'm wondering what effect a virus has on call quality. It's got to mess it up I'm sure.-So I had to remove Avast-

I was just talking to another guy about mod making and the potential to use MJ in a mod-check this out-Suppose you install a game or mod and it asks for your home phone number and home address-The game begins and using GPS at the start of the game each game would set up different outdoor locations for the player to get to-A sort of treasure hunt only your just arriving at one area after another. Say the game uses GPS and gives you directions to a park. Then your cell phone rings and it's the automated prearranged voice telling you where to go next-This would be easy and free using MJ and it would be a total immersion in the game. So, to start you get the game home and go online to their site and enter your home address and phone numbers.

After that it designs a course for the player to go on. It may take you to the city library where you need to make a copy of some city documents. All of this is done by the player alone and the voice on your phone is giving you all the directions, and plans for every move from which street turn on to which building to enter. I can see this type of total involvement and immersion bieng a possibilty in future games. It also makes the player get out of the house and go around town. Imagine your starting the game and you walk into an office, in the game.You see a phone on a desk and all at once the lights on the phone all light up and you hear it ringing but also ringing is the phone next to you, IN YOUR HOUSE!! You pick it up and you hear "Goog morning Mr. Freeman. I see your using Magic Jack-Good-We will be making and taking alot of calls from around the country and the world today-So rise and shine Mr Freeman!" and the marriage of HL2 and MJ1 has begun!
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gators5
MagicJack User


Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: ooma Reply with quote

Hadn't heard about ooma until reading this site the other night. Went to Costco, BestBuy, Compusa, Walmart and Amazon websites to read the reviews. ooma is worth checking out. Impressed that Costco, Best Buy and Walmart are selling it becasue if they had a lot of returns, they would stop selling it. If MJ doesn't fix it act soon, ooma may be the winner. Did not read a single review where anyone complained about voice quality or echoes. No one talked about having to pull a rabbit out of the hat work arounds to get great voice quality. They just set it up, about 15 minutes, and it worked. It sounds like they have invented a better mouse trap.

While there is a one time charge of $200+ if it works, it is certainly worth not having to tell someone I'm calling or have called, "We have a bad connection. let me call you back on my cell". After a few months it pays for itself when compared to the phone or cable company. Also don't have to have my computer running 24/7 in order to have phone service. Would be interested if anyone tried ooma.

According to a post the other day Dan said voice quality should have improved on Friday. Mine is better. Not perfect, but not third world quality like it has been. Did it improve for you? Also, any idea when the promised new fix is on the way?
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: ooma Reply with quote

gators5 wrote:
They just set it up, about 15 minutes, and it worked. It sounds like they have invented a better mouse trap.


Follow-ups here: http://www.phoneservicesupport.com/post30520.html#30520

gators5 wrote:
According to a post the other day Dan said voice quality should have improved on Friday. Mine is better. Not perfect, but not third world quality like it has been. Did it improve for you? Also, any idea when the promised new fix is on the way?


As posted last night, my test with a few proxies was better than the night before. But, I don't know how much that may be due to me fixing my QoS.

It really seemed to me that a lot of choppiness was due to MJ's "squelch" feature where it tries to blank out low sounds and not send network traffic for no real sound. It seems MJ is too aggressive in applying it. Too quick to cut off sound. Too abrupt of a cutoff. It seemed to me that yelling into the phone (when calling the echo test number) caused the squelch level to change. I could speak at normal levels without it cutting out.

I'd like to hear if anyone else tries it and comes to the same conclusion. A good word for testing is "mathematical" pronounced with five syllables. MJ's aggressive squelch blanks out the last syllable for me ("cal").

Mark
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That Masked Man
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everybody. I have encountered the choppy audio (broken audio) problem like many others. I think this procedure will help many of you. Especially, if you like to remove the MJ from the USB port during your sessions to get rid of the MJ interface window when you are not using it. One of MJ's problems is that it's files on the hard disk tend to get corrupted from time to time. First thing to do is unplug the MJ from your USB port. Click on the Windows Start button, click on Search, click on "All files and folders", Enter "magicjack" in the top search box and click the Search button. This should bring up all Magicjack files in your Documents and Settings and possibly your prefetch areas on your hard drive. Delete all of those files showing in the search window results. Defragment your hard drive to make room for new unfragmented files in your hard drive. Make sure you have a working internet connection before the next step. Plug in the Magicjack dongle into the USB port. Within a minute you should see the MJ spashscreen complete with your phone number contacts and favorites sections intact. Make a test call to one of your contacts. When I did this (twice now in the last 2 months) the audio quality improved.
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rodak
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't make or receive a lot of phone calls, but I made a couple yesterday and the day before, after Dan's so-called "improvement". Same choppy audio. I have a WRT45GL running Tomato with QoS configured per pagemen's tech tip article, I have magicjack.exe set to high priority (using Prio), I have a good solid 1.2Mbps DSL connection, and I switched from the troublesome Chicago proxy to one closer to me (Atlanta, which AZ had excellent results from in his testing). The Atlanta proxy fixed my echo problem, but not the choppiness. I haven't tried any other proxies, but that's probably next on the list.

So when's that other "update" due - a week from now?

I've gone back to my landline. MJ is just too unreliable, no matter what I do. I'll keep fitzing with it any time a new fix comes along. I'll be keeping my eye on Ooma too. If MJ doesn't get it's act together by the time my year runs out (12/09), and Ooma is still going strong, I'll probably just go with them - seems like a better solution all around, anyway...IF they can stay in business!

I sure appreciate all the wisdom and advice found here - looking forward to more of it.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ-I got the new MJ today from Dan-Now if I can only get it to work! I had the tech support on, 3 of them and none can get it to work. I keep getting the message to plug it in to the usb-it is! I asked if I needed to delete any old files before installing the new one but they said no. I have no idea why it's not configuring. The old one still works but it has bad audio. I may have to email some tech support at the top tommorro-this is really dumb! Once, about 3 years ago before the system got oversold it ran pretty good, not perfect but decent. What the hell happened? Too many talkers! Time for MJ to bring in a new dedicated line and sell it to those of us with tender ears. I'm a musician and I can hear every little bad sound in music or a call. It's not good.
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cdwaldron
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 107
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saxman,
Plug in your new MJ. Go to the softphone and hit the fix button. This sounds like the problem with the error 3 desl that a few folks have had recently.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CD-I don't get the softphone. I only get as far as the red letters saying I need to plug it into the usb. I have my old one and it will install and work but the audio sucks, thats why Dan gave me a new one. But the new one won't install! The tech support said I should not need to delete all the old files but I'm starting to wonder if that's true. I just sent Dan an email to find out.My pc or MJ is not recognising this new one for some reason. How do I get them to shake hands?O-I just got a new email from the governor of Illinoise-he says for a small amount of money he can get it "fixed"! wow!
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cdwaldron
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 107
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saxman,

I think the Gov. may subscribe to a higher ehtical plane than Dan. I think I'd go with him!
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[email protected]
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last three or four days the quality of calls with Magic-Jack significantly improved for me...as good as the land line. My hopes were dashed quickly though as today the calls are horrific. Have not made any recent changes to account for the quality changes. Tried today the suggestion above about deleting the magicjack files and reloading....that did zippo for me.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
My hopes were dashed quickly though as today the calls are horrific.


I haven't made any calls in a few days (since I did the proxy comparison). But, last night I called my voice mail just to see if there were any messages. It went back to "ready" after clicking the vmail button. I had to do it 5-6 times before it went through. This was after a fresh reboot, fresh connection to MJ.

Mark
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[email protected]
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have experienced something similar before but that was just dialing a number. It absolutely refused to go through with the call even though the number was reached through a land line in between.
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hsweiss
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 563
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be a proxy issue because I've made several calls today from Maryland to California and they were as good as a regular land-line. But I've blocked the NY and LA proxies which tend to be overloaded.
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saxman
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea-Mean while I stayed up real late last night trying to get the new one working but no luck. I have now been passed through 5 different "tech support" people at MJ none have found the solution.

I also sent an email to the people at Ooma asking why they sell their phone system with a 3000 minute talk limit per month and then call it "unlimited" calls. I may be jumping off the MJ boat and climbing onto the good ship Ooma-here is their reply-

This is put in place to protect us from people who want to abuse the unlimited minutes. Any unlimited service has a "limit" in the terms and conditions. If you are using it for residential calls then you will not be bothered. If you purchase the device and use it for a call center or a wardialer etc then we have the right to charge you or suspend service.
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