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MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

 
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asmr
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:12 am    Post subject: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

-Pick up the phone no dial tone, hang up and then pick up again the dial tone may return. Sometimes the dial tone is not present and the device will have to be restarted in the menu option.

-Voice Mail issues. Voice mail hangs up while leaving messages.

-Cannot talk no more than 1 hour 30 minutes and 1 second. The device disconnects from the network at the precise time to the second.

-Can you hear me now? During calls dropouts occur and at times the device will not respond. The blue light on the Magic Jack will turn off for about 15 seconds and come back on again. Problem is not with the USB connection.

-Toll Free Canadian Numbers. Cannot call toll free numbers in Canada such as Canadian Government numbers using the Magic Jack, If you need to call the Federal Government of Canada, Magic Jack customers will only end up reaching an assigned american number or a busy signal/recording may be received.

-Caller ID flakes out. Sometimes the CID works and some times it don't. Sometimes a default message on your CID display will show a message stating 'insignificant data could not be received', or 'CID not activated contact your service provider'.

-Does Magic Jack have a nick name in Canada? Magic Jack is known as "Magic Crap", "Magic Junk", "Jack-Ass", "Magic Shit", "Monopoly Jack", "Magic Scam", "Major Junk". I'm sure there more out there so feel free and share your nick name for Magic Jack.
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bitstopjoe
Future magicJack CEO


Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 2844
Location: North East Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

asmr wrote:
-Pick up the phone no dial tone, hang up and then pick up again the dial tone may return. Sometimes the dial tone is not present and the device will have to be restarted in the menu option.

-Voice Mail issues. Voice mail hangs up while leaving messages.

-Cannot talk no more than 1 hour 30 minutes and 1 second. The device disconnects from the network at the precise time to the second.

-Can you hear me now? During calls dropouts occur and at times the device will not respond. The blue light on the Magic Jack will turn off for about 15 seconds and come back on again. Problem is not with the USB connection.

-Toll Free Canadian Numbers. Cannot call toll free numbers in Canada such as Canadian Government numbers using the Magic Jack, If you need to call the Federal Government of Canada, Magic Jack customers will only end up reaching an assigned american number or a busy signal/recording may be received.

-Caller ID flakes out. Sometimes the CID works and some times it don't. Sometimes a default message on your CID display will show a message stating 'insignificant data could not be received', or 'CID not activated contact your service provider'.

-Does Magic Jack have a nick name in Canada? Magic Jack is known as "Magic Crap", "Magic Junk", "Jack-Ass", "Magic Shit", "Monopoly Jack", "Magic Scam", "Major Junk". I'm sure there more out there so feel free and share your nick name for Magic Jack.


I call mine "it works great for me for over 2 years now"
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Diggs
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 268

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject:

And I call mine "$$$ in my pocket".

This would be better posted in Rants and Raves unless you have a question related to your thin client. And, if you can't tell the difference between the forums, you may not have enough intelligence to run a MagicJack hence your problems.
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notdeadyet
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 187
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject:

It's OK Joe!!! you'll notice he's been a member a whole 7 hrs at the most so far, and he want's to obviously get somethings off his chest about MJ Wink

Once he's been around long enough, perhaps he'll find, like most of us, that it's not the MJ, but the computer/router setup that's causing the problems, as we have done by reading here and learning how to correct most of the MJ issues, although there's nothing that can be done for the 90 outgoing call limit that we all know about from other posts here...except that we just call back and go for another 90 minutes, right Smile As we're always stating and reading here: what do you expect for $19 a year Wink
Mine also works great 95% of the time, and for that price, I think it's great!!
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bitstopjoe
Future magicJack CEO


Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 2844
Location: North East Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:33 pm    Post subject:

notdeadyet wrote:
It's OK Joe!!! you'll notice he's been a member a whole 7 hrs at the most so far, and he want's to obviously get somethings off his chest about MJ Wink

Once he's been around long enough, perhaps he'll find, like most of us, that it's not the MJ, but the computer/router setup that's causing the problems, as we have done by reading here and learning how to correct most of the MJ issues, although there's nothing that can be done for the 90 outgoing call limit that we all know about from other posts here...except that we just call back and go for another 90 minutes, right Smile As we're always stating and reading here: what do you expect for $19 a year Wink
Mine also works great 95% of the time, and for that price, I think it's great!!


Amen Diggs...

NotDeadYet... Read?? What, learn, who?? Surely you jest, and dont call me "Shirley"

Me thinks thou asks to much of people these days Smile
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asmr
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:27 pm    Post subject: The problem was my Magic Jack and not setup

The problem was the Magic Jack Device and not my computer or my Router settings. I got a new device free of charge from Magic Jack. The voice mail problem was at fault of Magic Jack servers over loading. The Magic Jack works fine now. Still can't call toll free numbers in Canada and that is a problem Magic Jack is having here in Canada. They have to setup a boundary gateway with Canada and the USA toll free numbers, as for now Magic Jack in Canada is sharing the same gateway!
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jameshotwire
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject:

Is their a fix for magic jack hanging up at 90 minutes and 1 second. words cannot express my anger and frustration with this issue. I have been trying for a week now to contact costumer service for my unemployment and i thought it was them hanging up on me. I am flat broke and can only fix this by calling their number which is always a very long wait. I am currently out of state and if i call from another land line they will know im outa state and not pay me my money, thus im stuck with having to use magic jack to call them. why would they even set a limit to a phone call is just beyond reason. Evil or Very Mad
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bitstopjoe
Future magicJack CEO


Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 2844
Location: North East Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:43 pm    Post subject:

jameshotwire wrote:
Is their a fix for magic jack hanging up at 90 minutes and 1 second. words cannot express my anger and frustration with this issue. I have been trying for a week now to contact costumer service for my unemployment and i thought it was them hanging up on me. I am flat broke and can only fix this by calling their number which is always a very long wait. I am currently out of state and if i call from another land line they will know im outa state and not pay me my money, thus im stuck with having to use magic jack to call them. why would they even set a limit to a phone call is just beyond reason. Evil or Very Mad


Nope totally normal. A few months ago and since early 2009 it had been 2 hrs and then disconnection. Prior to that for Christmas 2008 they actually lowered it to 30 minutes!! The only time I have found 90 min to be a pain is when calling tech support ( NOT MJ) is involved as sometimes just the hold time is 1/2 that.
Only way around it, right now, is to set up a free Google Voice account and tie your MJ phone to it. Also MJ to MJ calls and all incoming calls to your MJ have unlimited talk times.
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nailgunner
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:03 pm    Post subject:

jameshotwire wrote:
why would they even set a limit to a phone call is just beyond reason. Evil or Very Mad


They get charged connection fees when you make a call. They get paid a connection fee when you receive a call.

So why they do it is not beyond reason, it's pure economics. It obviously does not make it right.

The clever part is that they make it so that you cannot re-dial the same number for a few minutes, possibly to try to trick you into thinking there might be an issue with the service and get the party you called to call you back instead.
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BlackmagicBoy
MagicJack User


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 37
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

asmr wrote:
-Pick up the phone no dial tone, hang up and then pick up again the dial tone may return. Sometimes the dial tone is not present and the device will have to be restarted in the menu option.

-Voice Mail issues. Voice mail hangs up while leaving messages.

-Cannot talk no more than 1 hour 30 minutes and 1 second. The device disconnects from the network at the precise time to the second.

-Can you hear me now? During calls dropouts occur and at times the device will not respond. The blue light on the Magic Jack will turn off for about 15 seconds and come back on again. Problem is not with the USB connection.

-Toll Free Canadian Numbers. Cannot call toll free numbers in Canada such as Canadian Government numbers using the Magic Jack, If you need to call the Federal Government of Canada, Magic Jack customers will only end up reaching an assigned american number or a busy signal/recording may be received.

-Caller ID flakes out. Sometimes the CID works and some times it don't. Sometimes a default message on your CID display will show a message stating 'insignificant data could not be received', or 'CID not activated contact your service provider'.

-Does Magic Jack have a nick name in Canada? Magic Jack is known as "Magic Crap", "Magic Junk", "Jack-Ass", "Magic Shit", "Monopoly Jack", "Magic Scam", "Major Junk". I'm sure there more out there so feel free and share your nick name for Magic Jack.

Duh, you're not making any sense you are using your device everyday with longer hours and that is guaranteed that will last for 1yr with $19.95 all over US and Canada and now you will just say ("Magic Crap", "Magic Junk", "Jack-Ass", "Magic Shit", "Monopoly Jack", "Magic Scam", "Major Junk". ) you;re simply nothing!!! use your landline for 1 hour and 30 minutes in calling other states instead if you're not coftable using Jack... then tell me if you will be paying the same when using MJ?
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VaHam
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 851

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

BlackmagicBoy wrote:
asmr wrote:
-Pick up the phone no dial tone, hang up and then pick up again the dial tone may return. Sometimes the dial tone is not present and the device will have to be restarted in the menu option.

-Voice Mail issues. Voice mail hangs up while leaving messages.

-Cannot talk no more than 1 hour 30 minutes and 1 second. The device disconnects from the network at the precise time to the second.

-Can you hear me now? During calls dropouts occur and at times the device will not respond. The blue light on the Magic Jack will turn off for about 15 seconds and come back on again. Problem is not with the USB connection.

-Toll Free Canadian Numbers. Cannot call toll free numbers in Canada such as Canadian Government numbers using the Magic Jack, If you need to call the Federal Government of Canada, Magic Jack customers will only end up reaching an assigned american number or a busy signal/recording may be received.

-Caller ID flakes out. Sometimes the CID works and some times it don't. Sometimes a default message on your CID display will show a message stating 'insignificant data could not be received', or 'CID not activated contact your service provider'.

-Does Magic Jack have a nick name in Canada? Magic Jack is known as "Magic Crap", "Magic Junk", "Jack-Ass", "Magic Shit", "Monopoly Jack", "Magic Scam", "Major Junk". I'm sure there more out there so feel free and share your nick name for Magic Jack.

Duh, you're not making any sense you are using your device everyday with longer hours and that is guaranteed that will last for 1yr with $19.95 all over US and Canada and now you will just say ("Magic Crap", "Magic Junk", "Jack-Ass", "Magic Shit", "Monopoly Jack", "Magic Scam", "Major Junk". ) you;re simply nothing!!! use your landline for 1 hour and 30 minutes in calling other states instead if you're not coftable using Jack... then tell me if you will be paying the same when using MJ?


Or he could just buy an OBi100/OBi110 use FREE Google calling and talk as long as he wants. He can leave his computer off and use good ATA hardware that doesn't flake out and has 5 REN so it will ring any phone including the old dial types.

Yes a lot of the MJ troubles are dues to users network settings and computer process priority problems. The point is Good quality ATA hardware eliminates most of these (all the computer related ones).

MagicJunk's stupid policy of disallowing BYOD makes them no longer of any interest to me. There are simply better options out there!
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nailgunner
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 12:30 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

VaHam wrote:


MagicJunk's stupid policy of disallowing BYOD makes them no longer of any interest to me. There are simply better options out there!


Good grief Charlie Brown, you're starting to sound like the kid who had their ball taken away from them in the playground, (or pulled away from them repeatedly by Lucy), and a broken record to boot. It may be a stupid policy as far as a relative minor number of BYOD lovers/techies such as yourself are concerned. But it makes perfect sense as far as they are concerned, and quite honestly, if it was my company I would do the exact same thing. It gives them more and better control of their overall system. And while I'm no expert on this subject at all, from what I have read their old system left them open to all kinds of abuse.

And if you think a company like Google, with all of their resources, will just turn a blind eye if OBi ever becomes anything more than a minor player in this market, you don't know Google and big business too well.
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VaHam
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 851

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:


MagicJunk's stupid policy of disallowing BYOD makes them no longer of any interest to me. There are simply better options out there!


Good grief Charlie Brown, you're starting to sound like the kid who had their ball taken away from them in the playground, (or pulled away from them repeatedly by Lucy), and a broken record to boot. It may be a stupid policy as far as a relative minor number of BYOD lovers/techies such as yourself are concerned. But it makes perfect sense as far as they are concerned, and quite honestly, if it was my company I would do the exact same thing. It gives them more and better control of their overall system. And while I'm no expert on this subject at all, from what I have read their old system left them open to all kinds of abuse.

And if you think a company like Google, with all of their resources, will just turn a blind eye if OBi ever becomes anything more than a minor player in this market, you don't know Google and big business too well.


Well I have been around the block and here for a long time! I have lots of voip ATA's, NetTalk Duo, 2 PBX's and several MJ's.

MJ was great learning experience and if you like to fiddle they can be made to work just fine. Most folks load software, make configuration changes and add device to their LAN. This often causes problems with how the MJ functions. The basic scheme of requiring a computer to complete the working of the MJ leads to lots of problems.

I did a lot of work back in the beginning of using thinclients to work around the dependence of MJ; but why should a user have to go buy another computer just to use an ATA device? The answer is they shouldn't. MJ has learned a lesson from NetTalk Duo, OOMA et. al. that a phone device should stand on it's own and maybe soon will offer a free standing device of their own; but if the hardware quality of the new device is no better than the current one then you will still have junk which can flak out and has trouble providing ring current enough to ring one modern phone.

The MJ hardware is not very good, in addition to the systematic problems of their scheme. Many have had to reflash their MJ's to recover them and their REN capability is horrible.

My point is there are much better alternatives to MJ out there today which offer better hardware and do not require the use of a computer to operate; but MJ forces it customers to use it's junk and quirky scheme.

My favorite device at the moment happens to be the OBi110 ATA. The reason is it is a robust hardware device like it's predecessors the Linksys series (2102, 3102, PAP2) but is a second generation in my view and the company has made provisioning them a snap unlike the older Linksys models so youdon't need to be "techie" to get them up and running in a few minutes.

The fact the OBi's also make use of the XMPP (Google) protocol in addition to SIP is icing on the cake. The OBi's were sold before Google Voice feature was added and work IMHO better than the Linksys devices; they are certainly easier to setup.

But the bottom line is they are not tied to any specific voip provider such as GV. One of our users here has a nice little company which provides VOIP service which works great on the OBi and offers many more features than MJ.

So let me see $39 for MJ and a junkie device which is good for nothing other than MJ and requires a computer to support it (often to get them working really well a TC for another $50-$100). Or buy an OBi for $50 get free service for now and have a quality device which can be used with any VOIP service. Humm, why are some so reluctant to see the light?
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nailgunner
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

VaHam wrote:
nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:


MagicJunk's stupid policy of disallowing BYOD makes them no longer of any interest to me. There are simply better options out there!


Good grief Charlie Brown, you're starting to sound like the kid who had their ball taken away from them in the playground, (or pulled away from them repeatedly by Lucy), and a broken record to boot. It may be a stupid policy as far as a relative minor number of BYOD lovers/techies such as yourself are concerned. But it makes perfect sense as far as they are concerned, and quite honestly, if it was my company I would do the exact same thing. It gives them more and better control of their overall system. And while I'm no expert on this subject at all, from what I have read their old system left them open to all kinds of abuse.

And if you think a company like Google, with all of their resources, will just turn a blind eye if OBi ever becomes anything more than a minor player in this market, you don't know Google and big business too well.


So let me see $39 for MJ and a junkie device which is good for nothing other than MJ and requires a computer to support it (often to get them working really well a TC for another $50-$100). Or buy an OBi for $50 get free service for now and have a quality device which can be used with any VOIP service. Humm, why are some so reluctant to see the light?


It's not a matter of seeing or not seeing any light. I was responding to your recent repeated postings of them killing off the BYOD as your response to questions from users having problems. Here is one example:

http://www.phoneservicesupport.com/magicjack70297.html#70297

Why if I have near perfect performance with my MJ would I consider looking at another system? Especially one that may or may not have one of its rugs pulled out from under it by Google. I could be going from a system I'm happy with to one that I may have to constantly change. No thanks. I'm decidedly happy paying $20 a year for my near perfect phone service. And p.s., you are being slightly disingenuous by "suggesting" that there are not quality and performance issues with OBi as well. A cursory review of their forum shows it's not perfect for everyone either. This is one I like. A constant "hum" from the AC adapter that Obi is apparently aware of with some corded phones but won't remedy for it's users, other than to tell them if they use another adapter it will void their warranty. Notice there is a response from OBi near the end on the "rarity" of the issue, but no offer of refunds for the poor saps stuck with the hum:

http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=367.0
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VaHam
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 851

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:12 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

nailgunner wrote:
Good grief Charlie Brown, you're starting to sound like the kid who had their ball taken away from them in the playground, (or pulled away from them repeatedly by Lucy), and a broken record to boot.
nailgunner wrote:
It's not a matter of seeing or not seeing any light. I was responding to your recent repeated postings of them killing off the BYOD as your response to questions from users having problems. Here is one example:

http://www.phoneservicesupport.com/magicjack70297.html#70297

Lucy, if you don't like my opinions then I would suggest you not read them. If you feel it is your duty to police my postings in this forum (i.e. your representing the owner of this forum) then please let the owner tell me that and I'll be happy to take my comments elsewhere. Otherwise keep it to technical discussions and not personal attacks!

nailgunner wrote:
Why if I have near perfect performance with my MJ would I consider looking at another system? Especially one that may or may not have one of its rugs pulled out from under it by Google. I could be going from a system I'm happy with to one that I may have to constantly change. No thanks. I'm decidedly happy paying $20 a year for my near perfect phone service.

If MJ were "nearly perfect" then this forum would be a lonely place! If it were stand alone then this area of thin clients would have no reason to exist. If someone has a MJ and it is working fine for them so be it. If someone is looking to buy one that is a different story because IMHO there are better choices; which is my point.
nailgunner wrote:
And p.s., you are being slightly disingenuous by "suggesting" that there are not quality and performance issues with OBi as well. A cursory review of their forum shows it's not perfect for everyone either. This is one I like. A constant "hum" from the AC adapter that Obi is apparently aware of with some corded phones but won't remedy for it's users, other than to tell them if they use another adapter it will void their warranty. Notice there is a response from OBi near the end on the "rarity" of the issue, but no offer of refunds for the poor saps stuck with the hum:

http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=367.0


Disingenuous huh, did you miss the following parts of what the OP in that thread said
Quote:
You are not able to hear the AC hum if you use cordless (including DECT) phone connected to the phone port of the OBi110 since the AC hum will be filtered by the cordless phone. You have to use ordinary phones to carry out this AC hum test.

"I am not asking for an replacement, I want to OBi110 to be perfert for applied input AC voltages (110V, 240V) since I am planning to buy OBi110 more in the future. Also many friends of mine are introduced by me to buy many OBi110s for their applications."


He doesn't exactly sound like an unsatisfied customer to me....I'll let others form their own opinions.
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nailgunner
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

VaHam wrote:

Lucy, if you don't like my opinions then I would suggest you not read them. If you feel it is your duty to police my postings in this forum (i.e. your representing the owner of this forum) then please let the owner tell me that and I'll be happy to take my comments elsewhere. Otherwise keep it to technical discussions and not personal attacks!


My point exactly. Keep it to the technical stuff. After all the "owner" here does have a section for rants and MJ alternatives. A response to a technical question that it's "MagicJunk and you should use OBi instead" is technical? Okie dokie. Would be like going to a Ford forum with an engine question and getting a technical response that Ford's are junk and go get a Chevy.

And for the record, I was only posting my opinion about your opinion. If you don't like my opinions on your opinions, then I would suggest you not read them.
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nailgunner
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

VaHam wrote:
did you miss the following parts of what the OP in that thread said
Quote:
You are not able to hear the AC hum if you use cordless (including DECT) phone connected to the phone port of the OBi110 since the AC hum will be filtered by the cordless phone. You have to use ordinary phones to carry out this AC hum test.

"I am not asking for an replacement, I want to OBi110 to be perfert for applied input AC voltages (110V, 240V) since I am planning to buy OBi110 more in the future. Also many friends of mine are introduced by me to buy many OBi110s for their applications."


He doesn't exactly sound like an unsatisfied customer to me....I'll let others form their own opinions.


No I didn't miss that post. Nor did I miss the one where OBi makes it very clear that him, and others, have voided their warranties by using a different adapter. I too will let others form their own opinions on the official OBi response.
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VaHam
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 851

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
did you miss the following parts of what the OP in that thread said
Quote:
You are not able to hear the AC hum if you use cordless (including DECT) phone connected to the phone port of the OBi110 since the AC hum will be filtered by the cordless phone. You have to use ordinary phones to carry out this AC hum test.

"I am not asking for an replacement, I want to OBi110 to be perfect for applied input AC voltages (110V, 240V) since I am planning to buy OBi110 more in the future. Also many friends of mine are introduced by me to buy many OBi110s for their applications."


He doesn't exactly sound like an unsatisfied customer to me....I'll let others form their own opinions.


No I didn't miss that post. Nor did I miss the one where OBi makes it very clear that him, and others, have voided their warranties by using a different adapter. I too will let others form their own opinions on the official OBi response.


Well one thing I will say is that OBi folks have a forum, which they host and responded in. I don't recall anything like that with MJ Rolling Eyes You apparently do not like the fact that they are trying to hold costs and not address a rare minor hum problem on a corded phone used in HK on 220V 50Hz. Seems like a reasonable response from OBi and an explanation of why they do not use linear supplies. (green) Of coarse they cannot honor a warranty if you go around plugging in some power source of your own. (would you?)

In searching back I believe your first "technical response" in this thread was a blatant personal attack on me for offering a technical alternative to the OP who clearly was unhappy with MJ. That kind of behavior is uncalled for! As Diggs pointed out early in the thread it should have been placed in rants but I am not the OP and did not choose the area. To point out alternatives is IMHO a technical response to one who is unhappy with their current approach.

You obviously seem to extol the goodness of MJ in all the other threads I see and seem to disagree with my opinion that commercial ATAs are superior to MJ's dongle and computer reliance approach. Do you in fact believe that MJ hardware and software are in the same league as commercial ATA products? (yes or no)

If yes can you provide some background on the basis of your opinion? (i.e. examples of other alternatives you have personally used) If your opinion is based on your technical background rather than real life experience, can you give us a glimpse of what your technical background is?

If not then I think you agree with me!

I suspect you'll be hard pressed to find folks who have experience with real ATAs who would not tell you they are better than MJ in many respects. The main drawback to the technically challenged is provisioning them. IMHO OBi has done a very good job of making this easy. Have you tried an OBi?
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crackerjack
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 784

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:00 pm    Post subject:

Back in the day when it was easily doable, using a MJ sip acct with almost ANY other adapter/softphone/pbx provided superior performance to using a tethered MJ dongle with even the most optimized PC based hardware.
The complicated lashup of MJ's antiquated hardware, buggy firmware and dependance on the black magic of USB technology made for multitudinous possibilities for conflict and a less than satisfactory user experience.

OTOH, Ymax runs a great telecom network. Using their infrastructure with SIP credentials liberated from the dongle remains an eminently pleasure.

Hopefully the MJ+ will approach the voice quality levels one would expect from the YMAX facilities with the simplicity of true plug-and-play.

Time will tell
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VaHam
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject:

crackerjack wrote:
Back in the day when it was easily doable, using a MJ sip acct with almost ANY other adapter/softphone/pbx provided superior performance to using a tethered MJ dongle with even the most optimized PC based hardware.
The complicated lashup of MJ's antiquated hardware, buggy firmware and dependance on the black magic of USB technology made for multitudinous possibilities for conflict and a less than satisfactory user experience.

OTOH, Ymax runs a great telecom network. Using their infrastructure with SIP credentials liberated from the dongle remains an eminently pleasure.

Hopefully the MJ+ will approach the voice quality levels one would expect from the YMAX facilities with the simplicity of true plug-and-play.

Time will tell


I agree Crackerjack, but with good quality ATAs as has been proven in the past why do we need another piece of what has proven to be junkie MJ hardware to try and get back to that good quality?

MJ, like any other sip provider, had control over their network users; so it's not a control issue. Does MJ make that much profit from selling their hardware?

I suspect it is the game MJ plays to avoid being a phone company while advertising free phone service so they can avoid taxes.

Anyone who has been here long enough will recall that, like Linux support, BYOD was also promised by MJ in the early days and like so many other things it has not materialized.

If MJ allowed BYOD, as they earlier promised, I would keep accounts with them because they do have a pretty good network now that they have gotten some of the early bugs out; but I am not willing to invest in anymore of their junkie hardware. There is already good hardware available and to buy more which is locked to a specific provider, simply does not make sense to me. There are plenty of other voip providers out there which offer good quality; I am not married to MJ.
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nailgunner
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

VaHam wrote:


Well one thing I will say is that OBi folks have a forum, which they host and responded in. I don't recall anything like that with MJ Rolling Eyes You apparently do not like the fact that they are trying to hold costs and not address a rare minor hum problem on a corded phone used in HK on 220V 50Hz. Seems like a reasonable response from OBi and an explanation of why they do not use linear supplies. (green) Of coarse they cannot honor a warranty if you go around plugging in some power source of your own. (would you?)

I was only responding to your assertion that OBi was a quality product with no issues. There are other issues in that forum as well, that was just my favorite.

I agree they should void the warranty. But they should also offer refunds to those with the problem, which they haven't. Can you imagine the howling that would take place in here if MJ did that? And you apparently missed the other postings on that subject. The OP was from HK, the others saying that they too had the problem were not.


In searching back I believe your first "technical response" in this thread was a blatant personal attack on me for offering a technical alternative to the OP who clearly was unhappy with MJ. That kind of behavior is uncalled for! As Diggs pointed out early in the thread it should have been placed in rants but I am not the OP and did not choose the area. To point out alternatives is IMHO a technical response to one who is unhappy with their current approach.

The so-called "blatant personal attack" I made was because it was the second time in less than a week that you blamed MJ taking away BYOD as an issue. Pointing out alternatives is of NO use to someone trying to fix a current problem. Or did i miss it and did either one say "I'm having an issue. I don't want suggested fixes, I want alternatives to MagicJunk"? Which is exactly what you did less than a week ago, to refresh your memory AGAIN: http://www.phoneservicesupport.com/magicjack70297.html#70297


You obviously seem to extol the goodness of MJ in all the other threads I see and seem to disagree with my opinion that commercial ATAs are superior to MJ's dongle and computer reliance approach. Do you in fact believe that MJ hardware and software are in the same league as commercial ATA products? (yes or no)

If yes can you provide some background on the basis of your opinion? (i.e. examples of other alternatives you have personally used) If your opinion is based on your technical background rather than real life experience, can you give us a glimpse of what your technical background is?

If not then I think you agree with me!

I have no reason to agree or disagree with you. I couldn't care less how it performs in relation to other devices/setups. All I know and all I need to know is that it works almost flawlessly for me.

And I challenge you to show one post where I have said MJ is superior to any product on the market.


I suspect you'll be hard pressed to find folks who have experience with real ATAs who would not tell you they are better than MJ in many respects. The main drawback to the technically challenged is provisioning them. IMHO OBi has done a very good job of making this easy. Have you tried an OBi?

Why would I? I'm not a branch of Consumers Reports. As long as my internet stays on, I get near-perfect phone service at virtually no cost. If I was unhappy with MJ, I would have moved on long ago. It continues to amaze me that some of you refuse to believe that there are plenty of satisfied MJ users.
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:13 pm    Post subject:

VaHam wrote:


MJ, like any other sip provider, had control over their network users; so it's not a control issue. Does MJ make that much profit from selling their hardware?

I have read a different story on that, in here, I believe. It was because they didn't have control of their network users, in some aspect, that had them take away SIP usage. Somehow certain users/hackers were abusing the system. I don't know enough about the business but there had to be enough of a loss of revenue or threat of loss of revenue for them to spend the time/energy/money to take it away.

I suspect it is the game MJ plays to avoid being a phone company while advertising free phone service so they can avoid taxes.

No offense, but that makes no sense. How does them allowing/not allowing you to use BYOD have ANY effect on them advertising free phone service?

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VaHam
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:46 pm    Post subject:

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
MJ, like any other sip provider, had control over their network users; so it's not a control issue. Does MJ make that much profit from selling their hardware?


I have read a different story on that, in here, I believe. It was because they didn't have control of their network users, in some aspect, that had them take away SIP usage. Somehow certain users/hackers were abusing the system. I don't know enough about the business but there had to be enough of a loss of revenue or threat of loss of revenue for them to spend the time/energy/money to take it away.


So you have no direct knowledge of this just something you seem to remember reading here. Funny lots of other VOIP provider seem to be able to maintain control without some low quality hard/software approach.

Why is MJ any different than them?
nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
I suspect it is the game MJ plays to avoid being a phone company while advertising free phone service so they can avoid taxes.


No offense, but that makes no sense. How does them allowing/not allowing you to use BYOD have ANY effect on them advertising free phone service?

The avoiding being a phone company and instead presenting themselves as a multimedia system is the basis they use to avoid having to pay 911 and other taxes. Google MJ vs West Virginia court cases. That position does however haunt them because if you again Google MJ and termination fees you will see that position didn't not help there case over collecting them.
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VaHam
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

nailgunner wrote:
The so-called "blatant personal attack" I made was because it was the second time in less than a week that you blamed MJ taking away BYOD as an issue. Pointing out alternatives is of NO use to someone trying to fix a current problem. Or did i miss it and did either one say "I'm having an issue.


Actually your comment was in response to mine, which was in turn in response to the post imediatly preceeding which ended with:
BlackmagicBoy wrote:
you;re simply nothing!!! use your landline for 1 hour and 30 minutes in calling other states instead if you're not coftable using Jack... then tell me if you will be paying the same when using MJ?


To which I responded with:
VaHam wrote:

Or he could just buy an OBi100/OBi110 use FREE Google calling and talk as long as he wants. He can leave his computer off and use good ATA hardware that doesn't flake out and has 5 REN so it will ring any phone including the old dial types.

Yes a lot of the MJ troubles are dues to users network settings and computer process priority problems. The point is Good quality ATA hardware eliminates most of these (all the computer related ones).

MagicJunk's stupid policy of disallowing BYOD makes them no longer of any interest to me. There are simply better options out there!


So beyond the personal attack. Again I would ask what specific technical points of my comment did you take issue with?

Code:
1) He could by an OBi and enjoy free calling? (yes or no)
2) He would have no 1.5 hour call limit? (yes or no)
3) He can leave his computer off? (yes or no)
4) That he would be better off using good ATA hardware instead of the MJ dongle? (yes or no)
5) That a REN of 5 will ring any phone while MJ is lucky to ring one? (yes or no)
6) That process priority can cause conflicts with MJ? (yes or no)
7) That good quality ATA hardware eliminates most problems including all computer; related ones since a computer is not required? (yes or no)
8) That there are better options out there than MJ? (yes or no)


Finally my comment regarding BYOD is relevant since Dan said it would be available in March 2008. Perhaps you didn't find his statement in the link I provided so here it is again! BYOD was promised by MJ in March 2008. My point in the other thread was shorter, but is the crib version of my opinion expressed above. BYOD was promised and for some time it was do able albiet without MJ help and it worked very well. But MJ customers are again subjected to the same old problems that the OP in the other post and here expressed.

Again you appear to believe MJ is just fine and no one should express an opinion which is contrary to that.
So since you failed to answer the following questions last time I will repeat them again.

Do you in fact believe that MJ hardware and software are in the same league as commercial ATA products? (yes or no)
Ok I guess you partially answered that question by stating:
nailgunner wrote:
And I challenge you to show one post where I have said MJ is superior to any product on the market.

So if MJ is not superior to commercial ATAs then is it equal to or inferior to them? (equal or inferior)

The above is a simple question of your technical opinion; no need to side step, just respond with either equal or inferior!

You said you wished to keep things technical, as do I, and so I ask for your technical opinion since you apparently took great issue with me expressing mine.

I also think it is reasonable to establish the basis of your opinion. Again can you provide some background on the basis of your opinion? (i.e. examples of other alternatives you have personally used) If your opinion is based on your technical background rather than real life experience, can you give us a glimpse of what your technical background is?

I mean at least you can say tell us if you've ever used anything other than MJ or if you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night Smile
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:43 am    Post subject:

VaHam wrote:
nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
MJ, like any other sip provider, had control over their network users; so it's not a control issue. Does MJ make that much profit from selling their hardware?


I have read a different story on that, in here, I believe. It was because they didn't have control of their network users, in some aspect, that had them take away SIP usage. Somehow certain users/hackers were abusing the system. I don't know enough about the business but there had to be enough of a loss of revenue or threat of loss of revenue for them to spend the time/energy/money to take it away.


So you have no direct knowledge of this just something you seem to remember reading here. Funny lots of other VOIP provider seem to be able to maintain control without some low quality hard/software approach.

Why is MJ any different than them?


No more direct knowledge than your "funny lots of other VOIP providers "seem" to be able to maintain control" comment. Sounds pretty vague to me. Where is the evidence for that? I will find the relevant comments and re-post them so you can expand your education.


VaHam wrote:
nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
I suspect it is the game MJ plays to avoid being a phone company while advertising free phone service so they can avoid taxes.


No offense, but that makes no sense. How does them allowing/not allowing you to use BYOD have ANY effect on them advertising free phone service?

The avoiding being a phone company and instead presenting themselves as a multimedia system is the basis they use to avoid having to pay 911 and other taxes. Google MJ vs West Virginia court cases. That position does however haunt them because if you again Google MJ and termination fees you will see that position didn't not help there case over collecting them.


In my haste I misstated the question. How does them allowing or not allowing BYOD have ANY effect on them being called a phone company as you assert? Doesn't make any sense.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 2:56 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

VaHam wrote:

I mean at least you can say tell us if you've ever used anything other than MJ


It should be pretty clear from my earlier posts that I have only used MJ. But I'll re-post 3 for you again so you can read them s l o w l y this time:

"Why if I have near perfect performance with my MJ would I consider looking at another system?"

"I couldn't care less how it performs in relation to other devices/setups."

"Why would I? I'm not a branch of Consumers Reports."

So to be very C L E A R. I have N O T used anything other than MJ. Why would I when I'm 99.5% happy with what I have? I have made zero comments about how MJ relates to other devices. In fact, I have made no black and white statements about how any system performs other than my own experience with MJ, unlike you from your other post:

"Welcome to the world of MagicJunk. While their scheme of software and hardware causes tons of problems for everyone..."

Well it doesn't for "everyone" and I have a real bad habit of responding when people make black and white statements like that. Especially when I have personal knowledge of 2 MJ users, a friend and an ex-relative, who are just as happy with it as I am. And without putting words in his mouth, bitstopjoe from here has used it for 3 years, I think, and was likewise happy with it. He moved to Obi because he got a great deal and didn't want to leave his computer on. But when someone posts it's nothing but a piece of crap, like you did, I am obliged to call bullshit. Maybe my ex (almost 3 years), my friend (almost 2), myself (1.5) and Joe (3?) are the only 4 satisfied MJ users, but I highly doubt it.

And lastly, what "personal attack" do you keep referring to? Starting to sound like a broken record? Starting to sound like the kid who had their ball taken away because Dan doesn't allow BYOD? If that's a personal attack then I'm guilty because it sounds about right. To quote you:

Thursday May 12:
Welcome to the world of MagicJunk. While their scheme of software and hardware causes tons of problems for everyone as you can see from this forum; magicjack continues to force their customers to attempt to use their junk instead of allowing BYOD.

Friday May 13:
MagicJunk's stupid policy of disallowing BYOD makes them no longer of any interest to me.
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VaHam
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:00 am    Post subject:

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
So you have no direct knowledge of this just something you seem to remember reading here. Funny lots of other VOIP provider seem to be able to maintain control without some low quality hard/software approach.

Why is MJ any different than them?


No more direct knowledge than your "funny lots of other VOIP providers "seem" to be able to maintain control" comment. Sounds pretty vague to me. Where is the evidence for that? I will find the relevant comments and re-post them so you can expand your education.

So what is the technical issue you disagree with regarding other VOIP companies not requiring quirky hardware/software combinations in order to maintain control? Oh wait you've never used any others so you have no experience in the matter do you?


VaHam wrote:
nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
I suspect it is the game MJ plays to avoid being a phone company while advertising free phone service so they can avoid taxes.


No offense, but that makes no sense. How does them allowing/not allowing you to use BYOD have ANY effect on them advertising free phone service?

The avoiding being a phone company and instead presenting themselves as a multimedia system is the basis they use to avoid having to pay 911 and other taxes. Google MJ vs West Virginia court cases. That position does however haunt them because if you again Google MJ and termination fees you will see that position didn't not help there case over collecting them.


nailgunner wrote:
In my haste I misstated the question. How does them allowing or not allowing BYOD have ANY effect on them being called a phone company as you assert? Doesn't make any sense.

As I suggested to you earlier go Google and educate yourself on the matter. MJ's TOS states you are agreeing to there use as a "multimedia experience" not as a phone company. When MJ argued with counties in West Virginia over collection of 911 fees they claimed their TOS classification of "multimedia device" exempted them from payment of the fees, as I understand the legal arguments. Again go Google the facts for yourself......educate yourself!

I'll even make it easy for you to get started on your education:
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Magic-Jack-Has-Wrist-Slapped-Over-Access-Charges-113681

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/West-Virginia-County-Wants-Magic-Jack-To-Collect-911-Fees-112279

If service is provided thru an ATA perhaps you can explain to us uneducated folks where the "multimedia" part is? Which is why using BYOD weakens MJs position of claiming to be a multimedia device. Duh Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:53 am    Post subject:

VaHam wrote:

So what is the technical issue you disagree with regarding other VOIP companies not requiring quirky hardware/software combinations in order to maintain control?


Hell if I know. I was just using the same standard that you were applying to me when I quoted what others had posted and you wanted to see the proof. You made a statement that they ALL maintain control and I was just wondering where you got your facts from that they were maintaining control. Maybe, just maybe, the losses they are incurring because of a lack of control are minor, and they haven't notified you yet.

VaHam wrote:


If service is provided thru an ATA perhaps you can explain to us uneducated folks where the "multimedia" part is? Which is why using BYOD weakens MJs position of claiming to be a multimedia device. Duh Rolling Eyes


Now now, don't go changing your story. You replied to crackerjack that MJ shut down the use of them being used that way to avoid being called a phone company. Not IF they were ONLY going to be used that way. Because surely you aren't suggesting that the small percentage of MJ users that would use it that way would cause MJ to be called a phone company?

Lets do some math. 7 million sold. What, 100,000 at most (no I don't have any stats to back it up) would use it that way? That's less than 2%. Lets take it up to 350,000 that would use it that way. That's 5%. So if 5% use a product against the TOS, the FCC is going to declare MJ a phone company? Again, in my opinion, your statement is pure nonsense. Duh Rolling Eyes
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VaHam
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:

I mean at least you can say tell us if you've ever used anything other than MJ


It should be pretty clear from my earlier posts that I have only used MJ. But I'll re-post 3 for you again so you can read them s l o w l y this time:


While you wave the pom poms for your MJ I don't recall your stating that you never used any other device before now. If my only experience was with a horse and buggy I may be pretty happy with that horse and buggy until I got behind the wheel of an automobile Smile

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
"Welcome to the world of MagicJunk. While their scheme of software and hardware causes tons of problems for everyone..."


Well it doesn't for "everyone" and I have a real bad habit of responding when people make black and white statements like that. Especially when I have personal knowledge of 2 MJ users, a friend and an ex-relative, who are just as happy with it as I am. And without putting words in his mouth, bitstopjoe from here has used it for 3 years, I think, and was likewise happy with it. He moved to Obi because he got a great deal and didn't want to leave his computer on. But when someone posts it's nothing but a piece of crap, like you did, I am obliged to call bullshit. Maybe my ex (almost 3 years), my friend (almost 2), myself (1.5) and Joe (3?) are the only 4 satisfied MJ users, but I highly doubt it.


I don't recall saying "crap" in any of my comments can you point that word out please?

Gee I guess you have cited 4 exceptions to the rule....I stand corrected on the "everyone" (although I believe that term is often, perhaps misused, to describe a large sample). In fairness I am sure there are other lucky folks who have not had problems. However I know I and others have spent lots of time here offering up free technical advice to help lots of folks who have not been so lucky.

nailgunner wrote:
And lastly, what "personal attack" do you keep referring to? Starting to sound like a broken record? Starting to sound like the kid who had their ball taken away because Dan doesn't allow BYOD? If that's a personal attack then I'm guilty because it sounds about right.


So much for keeping discussions on a technical basis! Which was my point and yes being compared to Charlie Brown who had his ball taken away is a personal attack. Did someone appoint you as forum correctness officer and I didn't get the memo or are you self appointed?

I certainly have no problem with someone disagreeing with a technical opinion of mine if they have something of value to bring to the table and are civil I may learn something. If however comments amount to no more than cheerleading from someone who brings neither diverse experience or technical expertise to the table then I'll file those comments in the for what they are worth column, as long as they are civil.

I have sound technical reasons for my statements initially presented in prose and later broken down for you to respond to one by one; however you have failed to do so thus providing no technical opinion of your own.

I believe I presented them accurately in the posts above and asked you to respond with yes no no answers to the technical points you disagree with. It is a simple concept on a technical level to either agree with the points or disagree with them; yet you failed to do either.

You went as far as saying that MJ was not superior to other approaches but failed to say whether it was inferior or equal to them yet. I can only assume, that is because you have neither the technical background or. as you admitted here, the personal experience to offer technical opinion of your own.

Yet you seem to feel you serve some technical purpose in waving the Pom Poms in favor of MJ and as you admit making a personal attack on someone who has both a relevant technical background and personal experience with MJ and several other approaches?

What a waste of my time!
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

VaHam wrote:


I don't recall saying "crap" in any of my comments can you point that word out please?

I took creative license and substituted your use of junk for crap. Pretty much means the same thing. My sincere apologies for the misquote.

VaHam wrote:
yes being compared to Charlie Brown who had his ball taken away is a personal attack.

Seriously. Grow a pair.

VaHam wrote:
If however comments amount to no more than cheerleading

I'm not cheerleading. Just giving another opinion when someone makes a black and white statement. And look back at your first magicjunk/byod post on the 12th, I responded to you then and followed it with some constructive advice to the OP, other than to ditch it and buy something else.

VaHam wrote:
You went as far as saying that MJ was not superior to other approaches

I most certainly did not. It may be difficult for you to distinguish the difference, but I said I don't know how MJ stacks up against others, not that it wasn't superior.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:


I don't recall saying "crap" in any of my comments can you point that word out please?

I took creative license and substituted your use of junk for crap. Pretty much means the same thing. My sincere apologies for the misquote.

Apologies accepted

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
yes being compared to Charlie Brown who had his ball taken away is a personal attack.

Seriously. Grow a pair.

And I say seriously grow up! If you have nothing of value to say then the best approach is usually to STFU.

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
If however comments amount to no more than cheerleading

I'm not cheerleading. Just giving another opinion when someone makes a black and white statement. And look back at your first magicjunk/byod post on the 12th, I responded to you then and followed it with some constructive advice to the OP, other than to ditch it and buy something else.

If you have neither the expertise or experience to discuss the merits of an issue, as you have admitted, then your comments are nothing more than cheerleading.

My opinion that there are much better alternatives out there is valid but since you are content to remain blissfully ignorant to the facts, I can understand that cheerleading is all you have to offer. If someone is having problems then returning the device and opting for better choice is good advice.

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
You went as far as saying that MJ was not superior to other approaches

I most certainly did not. It may be difficult for you to distinguish the difference, but I said I don't know how MJ stacks up against others, not that it wasn't superior.


So when you said
nailgunner wrote:
And I challenge you to show one post where I have said MJ is superior to any product on the market.

The purpose of that statement is unclear to me; unless you meant that MJ was not superior. If not then it would have to be just more argumentative twittering from an uninformed, self appointed forum correctness officer who had nothing of technical value to add to a discussion.
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 1:06 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

VaHam wrote:
If you have neither the expertise or experience to discuss the merits of an issue, as you have admitted, then your comments are nothing more than cheerleading.

This apparently is too deep a discussion for you to follow. When someone says, like you did, that MJ is a piece of junk, and I have experience that shows otherwise, my posting of that alternative view is not cheerleading. I believe I have enough experience with MJ to respond when someone says it's a piece of junk and everyone has tons of problems with it. If I was posting that MJ is the best/only product in the market to use, that would be cheerleading.

VaHam wrote:
So when you said
nailgunner wrote:
And I challenge you to show one post where I have said MJ is superior to any product on the market.

The purpose of that statement is unclear to me; unless you meant that MJ was not superior.

You really do have a problem with logic. Must be the same logic that led you to conclude MJ stopped BYOD to prevent being called a phone company. By saying that MJ works near perfectly for me, and others I know, in response to your "it's a piece of junk" comments, how is that claiming MJ is superior to anything. ALL I'm doing is stating my experience that it isn't a piece of junk.

The purpose of my asking you to show a posting where I claim MJ is superior is because you were repeatedly posting that I made such a claim. So again R E A L slowly for you. I'm not, and have never, claimed MJ is superior. That doesn't mean I think it's inferior. I'm not, and have never, claimed MJ is inferior. That doesn't mean I think it's superior. For what now, the 10th time? I make no judgement of the quality of MJ compared to other devices/systems. I do have a response to knuckleheads that post it's a piece of junk and everyone has tons of problems with it.


VaHam wrote:

If not then it would have to be just more argumentative twittering from an uninformed, self appointed forum correctness officer who had nothing of technical value to add to a discussion.

I'm not a self appointed forum correctness officer. But I didn't realize you felt the need to post opinions without anyone responding. It has been duly noted.

If you look at my initial responses to your initial postings, they were my opinions to your opinions. The rest of the time has been spent responding to the fact that you apparently don't think your opinions are subject to a differing view.
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 2:50 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:
If you have neither the expertise or experience to discuss the merits of an issue, as you have admitted, then your comments are nothing more than cheerleading.

This apparently is too deep a discussion for you to follow. When someone says, like you did, that MJ is a piece of junk, and I have experience that shows otherwise, my posting of that alternative view is not cheerleading. I believe I have enough experience with MJ to respond when someone says it's a piece of junk and everyone has tons of problems with it. If I was posting that MJ is the best/only product in the market to use, that would be cheerleading.

VaHam wrote:
So when you said
nailgunner wrote:
And I challenge you to show one post where I have said MJ is superior to any product on the market.

The purpose of that statement is unclear to me; unless you meant that MJ was not superior.

You really do have a problem with logic. Must be the same logic that led you to conclude MJ stopped BYOD to prevent being called a phone company. By saying that MJ works near perfectly for me, and others I know, in response to your "it's a piece of junk" comments, how is that claiming MJ is superior to anything. ALL I'm doing is stating my experience that it isn't a piece of junk.

The purpose of my asking you to show a posting where I claim MJ is superior is because you were repeatedly posting that I made such a claim. So again R E A L slowly for you. I'm not, and have never, claimed MJ is superior. That doesn't mean I think it's inferior. I'm not, and have never, claimed MJ is inferior. That doesn't mean I think it's superior. For what now, the 10th time? I make no judgement of the quality of MJ compared to other devices/systems. I do have a response to knuckleheads that post it's a piece of junk and everyone has tons of problems with it.


VaHam wrote:

If not then it would have to be just more argumentative twittering from an uninformed, self appointed forum correctness officer who had nothing of technical value to add to a discussion.

I'm not a self appointed forum correctness officer. But I didn't realize you felt the need to post opinions without anyone responding. It has been duly noted.

If you look at my initial responses to your initial postings, they were my opinions to your opinions. The rest of the time has been spent responding to the fact that you apparently don't think your opinions are subject to a differing view.


I welcome any differing view from a qualified source! I believe it is you who do not like a view which differs from yours which is why you chose to attack mine. However you have admitted you are incompetent in the technical issues involved.

BTW do you feel bolding every response some how makes it more correct Smile

As I said feel free to remain blissfully ignorant.
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nailgunner
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:47 am    Post subject: Re: MAGIC JACK DEVICE FLAKES OUT

VaHam wrote:

I welcome any differing view from a qualified source! I believe it is you who do not like a view which differs from yours which is why you chose to attack mine. However you have admitted you are incompetent in the technical issues involved.

Do you even know the difference between attacking someones views and stating a differing opinion. What technical issues do I need to know to state my personal opinion on your personal opinion on something I have first hand experience with? As a user of MJ for 1.5 years, I'm certainly qualified to respond to statements that it's junk with tons of problems for everyone.

VaHam wrote:

BTW do you feel bolding every response some how makes it more correct

No. I put it in bold because you kept making the same irrelevant statement over and over and over that I was stating MJ was somehow superior. I figured that you needed things to be put in bold for them to eventually sink in.

VaHam wrote:

As I said feel free to remain blissfully ignorant.


Blissfully ignorant about what? I stated my opinions that MJ wasn't junk for all, that stopping BYOD had nothing to do with being called a phone company, that you were getting whiny about it and that my opinion/expertise about how MJ stacks up to other systems is irrelevant to those three opinions. I remain blissfully aware of the same three opinions.

However I was up until now blissfully ignorant that you refuse to believe there are MJ users out there with contrary opinions to yours and who are perfectly happy with MJ. But I think I got the point
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VaHam
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 5:01 am    Post subject:

nailgunner wrote:
Do you even know the difference between attacking someones views and stating a differing opinion.

Yes I believe I do!
Stating a differing view might say the following:
I disagree with with your opinion because I have a MJ and it works so your use of the creative licensee in using the term "everyone" is not really 100% correct.

An attack of someone else's views might read something like the following
nailgunner wrote:
Good grief Charlie Brown, you're starting to sound like the kid who had their ball taken away from them in the playground, (or pulled away from them repeatedly by Lucy), and a broken record to boot.


Ok I got it the extent of your technical experience is that your's and 3 other MJs you know of work. I am happy for those that do.

You are the one who said you were not able to discuss the merits of my opinion on a technical basis when I attempted to do so early on. I came to understand that you apparently have no relevant technical background or any experience beyond the fact that your MJ works which makes it impossible to have any technical discussion with you regarding the technical shortcomings of MJ which form my opinion.

Anyone is entitled to express an opinion educated or not and so your free to have and express yours. If you recall this discussion began because you took issue with my expressing mine. And this discussion has proven that you simply do not like me expressing my opinion since it differs from yours and you offer as evidence that your opinion right because your MJ works ok. I will file file your opinion in my for what it is worth column and since that is all you appear to have to offer, this conversation should be over.

There are many issues of which I am familiar with technically which help to form my opinion and I would be happy to debate the technical issues, with anyone who is qualified to do so.

As for the merits of BYOD and it's implications in the dance MJ does between being a multimedia vs phone provider and it's implications I have no interest in trying to educate you further. Go Google the information for yourself. Perhaps someone else here will have the patience to explain it to you.

I refuse to continue to be dragged down into any more this senseless Internet banter before I lower myself to getting nasty. You keep your opinion and I will keep and express mine as I choose, regardless of whether your opinion is that I am a broken record or not.
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nailgunner
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 6:00 am    Post subject:

VaHam wrote:

Stating a differing view might say the following:
I disagree with with your opinion because I have a MJ and it works so your use of the creative licensee in using the term "everyone" is not really 100% correct.

Oh good. Now you are giving lessons on how we should respond to your posts.

VaHam wrote:

An attack of someone else's views might read something like the following

nailgunner wrote:
Good grief Charlie Brown, you're starting to sound like the kid who had their ball taken away from them in the playground, (or pulled away from them repeatedly by Lucy), and a broken record to boot.

No that wasn't an attack on your views. It was an attack on you being whiny.

VaHam wrote:
Ok I got it the extent of your technical experience is that your's and 3 other MJs you know of work.

Not THAT they work. But that they work almost perfect, contrary to your posted assertion. And that IS all that's necessary to respond to an opinion posting. You gave no "technical" background in your intitial statement. Just that is was MagicJunk that all had tons of problems with it. REAL technical.

VaHam wrote:

You are the one who said you were not able to discuss the merits of my opinion on a technical basis when I attempted to do so early on.

I would LOVE to see the technical discussion on the merits of your statement that everyone has tons of problems with MJ.

VaHam wrote:
If you recall this discussion began because you took issue with my expressing mine.

I took issue WITH your opinion not you expressing it. There is a HUGE difference. I pointed out you were sounding whiny because Dan took your BYOD away, and that was, and is, my opinion.

VaHam wrote:

As for the merits of BYOD and it's implications in the dance MJ does between being a multimedia vs phone provider and it's implications I have no interest in trying to educate you further. Go Google the information for yourself. Perhaps someone else here will have the patience to explain it to you.


I read everything you posted earlier on the subject. Not a single resource you quoted makes ANY correlation between BYOD and it's effect on whether MJ or anyone is labeled a multimedia or phone provider. It merely says what will happen if they are classed as a phone provider. Nothing on BYOD having any impact on that classification. From my feeble knowledge of the subject there are a TON (to use your wording) of reasons why a company could be classed as a phone company. Why if it's so easy to find via Google, don't you post a link and back up your own argument? ONE solid article (not just a link to another post from you stating the same unsupported opinion) on how allowing BYOD would put MJ, or whoever, in danger of being labeled a phone provider, and I will bow at the feet of your expertness.
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VaHam
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:52 am    Post subject:

Little man go back to the peanut gallery and shake your pom poms some more I told you I am done wasting my time!
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nailgunner
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject:

VaHam wrote:
Little man go back to the peanut gallery and shake your pom poms some more I told you I am done wasting my time!


That's what I thought. No "great technical" analysis available, just hot air.

Interesting though, I went back and double checked your supposed references to see if I missed something. On the link to the forum, I still couldn't find anything about BYOD being stopped to keep MJ from being called a phone company. I did however find a discussion about the large security holes in the system that had been there. There was even a mention that after Dan had bragged about the relative security of the system that someone posted a portion of Dan's personal SIP credentials. Hmmmm, I know I'm just a blissfully ignorant, uninformed, technically uneducated MJ user compared to you, but I wonder if THAT had anything to do with why Dan decided to not allow BYOD and totally locked down his system. Nawww, that can't be it.
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VaHam
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 851

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:59 pm    Post subject:

nailgunner wrote:

Interesting though, I went back and double checked your supposed references to see if I missed something. On the link to the forum, I still couldn't find anything about BYOD being stopped to keep MJ from being called a phone company. I did however find a discussion about the large security holes in the system that had been there. There was even a mention that after Dan had bragged about the relative security of the system that someone posted a portion of Dan's personal SIP credentials. Hmmmm, I know I'm just a blissfully ignorant, uninformed, technically uneducated MJ user compared to you, but I wonder if THAT had anything to do with why Dan decided to not allow BYOD and totally locked down his system. Nawww, that can't be it.


The fact that MagicJack is apparently unable to manage their security as well as any number of other providers who use the sip protocol comes as no surprise, but has nothing to do with BYOD. If you had any other experience you would realize that there are many companies out there who manage to maintain their security and offer BYOD as MagicJack had promised to do in March of 2008.

I believe I saw some where that Magic Jack was stupid enough to have left their own voice-mail pin set to the default at one time which would allow others to listen in on messages left for MJ. Another example of their lack of security but has nothing to do with BYOD.

Since your lack of reading or comprehension skills may be clouding the issue in the minds of casual readers here, I will try and explain the little MJ multimedia vs telecommunications provider issue.

From MJ's TOS:
Quote:
You will own the magicJack device, but not the Software used with the device or magicTalk, which is licensed to you under this Agreement for a one year term.

Use of the magicJack device and/or magicTalk is free. Your purchase of the magicJack device or download of magicTalk and registration of the magicJack device and/or magicTalk gives you a license to use the magicJack and the Software and/or magicTalk for one year.

The goods and services offered through magicJack and magicTalk provide a multimedia experience, which includes a voice over Internet information service feature. It is not a telecommunications service and is subject to different regulatory treatment from telecommunications services.


So when you purchase a MJ you are purchasing a device and a one year software license agreement or in the case of MagicTalk only the one year software license agreement. The $19.95/yr you pay is for renewal of that software licensee not for phone service.

Interconnection with the PSTN (phone service) is provided free via YMAX corporation. This free service is only provided to users of MagicJack or MagicTalk users who have a software licensee in good standing.

Hence the little dance is that YMAX provides the phone service but you are not a telecommunications customer of YMAX.

If MJ allowed BYOD then in order to collect charges from you it would require a different TOS and be providing a telecommunication service to you instead of the current software service fee.

This is the little dance which MJ does. YMAX attempts to collect termination fees from other companies but you are not directly a YMAX customer and YMAX provides no connection termination to you.

Exactly how much this weighed in during the FCC's recent rulings against YMAX/MagicJack is muddy but it must have been some factor since from the proceedings linked from one of the references I supplied earlier located at
http://www.telecomlawmonitor.com/uploads/file/FCC%20Ymax%20order.pdf you will find the following quote.
Quote:
4. YMax is able to participate in the transmission of the telephone calls at issue here only
through its working relationship with its close affiliate, MagicJack, L.P.16 MagicJack, L.P. markets and
sells for $39.95 a device called the magicJack®,17 which provides the ability to use the Internet to make
and receive calls throughout most of North America.18 The magicJack device itself consists of a USB
“dongle” on one end that plugs into a computer’s USB port, and an RJ-11 telephone jack on the other end
into which an ordinary landline telephone can be plugged.19 MagicJack, L.P. relies on YMax to obtain
telephone numbers and interconnection to the public switched telephone network (“PSTN”) for
magicJack purchasers.20 The record indicates that virtually all of the calls at issue involved the use of a
magicJack device.21

18 Joint Statement at 4, ¶ 16; MagicJack L.P. FAQs, attached as Ex. 15 to Complaint (“MagicJack FAQs”). To
continue using the magicJack device after the first year of use, an annual renewal fee of $19.95 is required.
MagicJack FAQs. As previously noted, YMax assesses no tariffed fees or charges on any magicJack purchaser for
any of the calls enabled by the magicJack device.


It goes on to address the how the MJ TOS is worded so that normal telecommunications tarrif's would not apply to YMAX.
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nailgunner
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:32 am    Post subject:

VaHam wrote:

The fact that MagicJack is apparently unable to manage their security as well as any number of other providers who use the sip protocol comes as no surprise, but has nothing to do with BYOD. If you had any other experience you would realize that there are many companies out there who manage to maintain their security and offer BYOD as MagicJack had promised to do in March of 2008.


Again my experience or lack thereof has nothing to do with this. You have a complete lack of common sense. I'm not stating that BYOD has anything to do with security. But if MJ was unable to maintain their system security, it would seem that allowing BYOD is the last thing they would want to do. They could have made a business decision that it was easier to shut the whole thing down then to make it secure enough to allow it BYOD. The fact that other companies were able to do it, says nothing about this other than MJ's apparent lack of competence at being able to secure their system.


VaHam wrote:

Since your lack of reading or comprehension skills may be clouding the issue in the minds of casual readers here, I will try and explain the little MJ multimedia vs telecommunications provider issue.

If MJ allowed BYOD then in order to collect charges from you it would require a different TOS and be providing a telecommunication service to you instead of the current software service fee.


I have no lack of reading or comprehension skills. I have a little bit of common sense however. So you want me to believe that MJ, in order to collect $19.95 for you to use their system as a BYOD, would have to re-work their whole TOS?

Common sense is telling me that if they are going to set up a system where they are able to charge you for BYOD, they could set up a system where they throw in some kind of piece of software, and call this a licensing fee as well with very little change to their TOS. A MagicBYOD screen that you need to log into in order to access the network maybe? They added MagicTalk to their TOS with little effort. I would not think adding MagicBYOD would be that difficult to accomplish, if they wanted to, and get them no closer to being called a phone company then they are now.

If they can get away with no device and just a piece of software needed for MagicTalk, and still not be called a phone company, tell me why they couldn't do the exact same thing with MagicBYOD?
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VaHam
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 851

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 2:06 am    Post subject:

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:

The fact that MagicJack is apparently unable to manage their security as well as any number of other providers who use the sip protocol comes as no surprise, but has nothing to do with BYOD. If you had any other experience you would realize that there are many companies out there who manage to maintain their security and offer BYOD as MagicJack had promised to do in March of 2008.


Again my experience or lack thereof has nothing to do with this. You have a complete lack of common sense. I'm not stating that BYOD has anything to do with security. But if MJ was unable to maintain their system security, it would seem that allowing BYOD is the last thing they would want to do. They could have made a business decision that it was easier to shut the whole thing down then to make it secure enough to allow it BYOD. The fact that other companies were able to do it, says nothing about this other than MJ's apparent lack of competence at being able to secure their system.


Ok I'll play your game. Please show me some link(s) to evidence that your theory has any merit just as you requested I do for mine?

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:

Since your lack of reading or comprehension skills may be clouding the issue in the minds of casual readers here, I will try and explain the little MJ multimedia vs telecommunications provider issue.

If MJ allowed BYOD then in order to collect charges from you it would require a different TOS and be providing a telecommunication service to you instead of the current software service fee.


I have no lack of reading or comprehension skills. I have a little bit of common sense however. So you want me to believe that MJ, in order to collect $19.95 for you to use their system as a BYOD, would have to re-work their whole TOS?

Common sense is telling me that if they are going to set up a system where they are able to charge you for BYOD, they could set up a system where they throw in some kind of piece of software, and call this a licensing fee as well with very little change to their TOS. A MagicBYOD screen that you need to log into in order to access the network maybe? They added MagicTalk to their TOS with little effort. I would not think adding MagicBYOD would be that difficult to accomplish, if they wanted to, and get them no closer to being called a phone company then they are now.


And whether the telecom vs multimedia claim in MJ's TOS will stand up in court I think is yet to be decided; so my common sense tells me MJ would want to do nothing to weaken their case. https://prodnet.www.neca.org/publicationsdocs/wwpdf/21411wvpsc.pdf

I am beginning to find that common sense isn't so common any more Smile

Apparently you don't know the common meaning of the term BYOD http://blog.voipsupply.com/list-of-35-byod-voip-service-providers

BYOD means it stands alone, in this context, which is in fact one of the things which makes BYOD work so well and doesn't require a computer to function. So yes they would be transitioning from a software licensee to a service agreement.

nailgunner wrote:
If they can get away with no device and just a piece of software needed for MagicTalk, and still not be called a phone company, tell me why they couldn't do the exact same thing with MagicBYOD?


The "just a piece of software" is what MJ charges a software licensee for as I already showed you. Once you understand the definition of BYOD provided in the link above, perhaps you will understand that the definition includes that it be fully functional with out other encryption or hiding sip credentials.

Now MJ claims to be releasing "soon" Smile their new "stand alone" product. Apparently even they have seen the light. But I'd be pretty willing to bet in the TOS you'll still be purchasing a software license and not a service.

But just as they promised linux support, BYOD,femto cells et.al. and never delivered we'll see.
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nailgunner
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Joined: 18 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 2:41 am    Post subject:

VaHam wrote:

Ok I'll play your game. Please show me some link(s) to evidence that your theory has any merit just as you requested I do for mine?

MY game? I didn't start asking for your evidence until AFTER you stated asking me for mine because I didn't have the expertise to voice my opinion on your opinion. So I thought if your were asking for my evidence I would ask for yours.


VaHam wrote:

And whether the telecom vs multimedia claim in MJ's TOS will stand up in court I think is yet to be decided; so my common sense tells me MJ would want to do nothing to weaken their case.

Whether, if. Add a few more conditions to your argument and I might think it's plausible.

VaHam wrote:

The "just a piece of software" is what MJ charges a software licensee for as I already showed you. Once you understand the definition of BYOD provided in the link above, perhaps you will understand that the definition includes that it be fully functional with out other encryption or hiding sip credentials.


You are still missing my point. You would have to have some kind of an account with them. So when you sign up you have to download a MagicBYOD dialer. Whether you use it or not is unimportant. You agree that you are paying a "small annual license fee" for their proprietary dialer software. It will have no impact of the function of the BYOD system. And a simple change to the TOS of service would work fine.
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VaHam
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:01 am    Post subject:

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:

Ok I'll play your game. Please show me some link(s) to evidence that your theory has any merit just as you requested I do for mine?

MY game? I didn't start asking for your evidence until AFTER you stated asking me for mine because I didn't have the expertise to voice my opinion on your opinion. So I thought if your were asking for my evidence I would ask for yours.

So you don't have any links then?

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:

And whether the telecom vs multimedia claim in MJ's TOS will stand up in court I think is yet to be decided; so my common sense tells me MJ would want to do nothing to weaken their case.

Whether, if. Add a few more conditions to your argument and I might think it's plausible.

I have no idea what your trying to say here.

nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:

The "just a piece of software" is what MJ charges a software licensee for as I already showed you. Once you understand the definition of BYOD provided in the link above, perhaps you will understand that the definition includes that it be fully functional with out other encryption or hiding sip credentials.


You are still missing my point. You would have to have some kind of an account with them. So when you sign up you have to download a MagicBYOD dialer. Whether you use it or not is unimportant. You agree that you are paying a "small annual license fee" for their proprietary dialer software. It will have no impact of the function of the BYOD system. And a simple change to the TOS of service would work fine.

No I am not missing a thing. Do you really think the FCC and courts are that stupid? I don't believe MJ does which is why they do not allow BYOD.
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nailgunner
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:37 am    Post subject:

VaHam wrote:

So you don't have any links then?

No. No more than the links you have posted to show that MJ causes tons of problems for everyone, or that BYOD leads to being declared a phone company.

VaHam wrote:
nailgunner wrote:
VaHam wrote:

And whether the telecom vs multimedia claim in MJ's TOS will stand up in court I think is yet to be decided; so my common sense tells me MJ would want to do nothing to weaken their case.

Whether, if. Add a few more conditions to your argument and I might think it's plausible.

I have no idea what your trying to say here.

"Whether" their current TOS of service will stand up in court adds another condition to your arguments. Of course if their current TOS aren't legal I would be hard pressed to argue that adding another service would stand up either.


VaHam wrote:
Do you really think the FCC and courts are that stupid? I don't believe MJ does which is why they do not allow BYOD.

Well, yea, I tend to believe more in the creativity of MJ and their legal staff then I do the FCC. I'm sure that if Dan wanted to provide BYOD, they would find a way to do it without being called a phone company.

For all the howling, hand wringing and "legal interpretation" that went on over it, they are STILL blocking the whole state of Alaska (and apparently half of Iowa). From the first postings in the other forum we are 10 months into them blocking exchanges. All the FCC complaints. All the letter writing. And still nothing. So if they can block a whole state I'm pretty confident their lawyers could find a way to set it up to do BYOD if they so decided.
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nailgunner
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject:

VaHam wrote:
Do you really think the FCC and courts are that stupid?


There might be a little better way for me to describe what I'm saying.

MagicJack sells me a device and licenses me to use their software. Between the device and software I plug a phone in and I get and receive free local/US/Canada phone calls. I get voice mail services stored on their system. They send me an email with my voice mails. They provide 911 service. They store my made and received calls on their system. They store my phone book on their system. They will sell me international minutes. They will even block me from calling certain places.

Somehow they were clever/lucky enough to have set all this up and done it for years (911 may be pretty recent) and not be classified as a phone company by the FCC.

I don't for a minute think that just by eliminating the device out of the equation that they aren't clever enough to allow BYOD as well, if they wanted to, without being called a phone company. Maybe not with my dialer software suggestion. But maybe setting up a company in Dan's brother-in-law or a close friends name and having that company collect a payment from the BYOD user and then pay a fee to Ymax. Or a half dozen other set-ups.

I obviously won't convince you and vice versa, but it was an interesting weekend mental exercise. But I've had enough and I'm sure everyone else quite reading this 25 posts ago, so I quit. Shocked
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