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Ooma vs magicjack



 
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sligg1
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject: Ooma vs magicjack Reply with quote

I'm not an MJ basher or a Ooma supporter. Granted Ooma costs more.

I have had MJ for 16 months and my subscription goes till next July. MJ has given me a lot of problems most of which have been listed on this forum. It works most of the time but on many connections phone quality is questionable. Ooma on the other hand has been almost flawless.

I'm using both systems.

The biggest difference is in the forums for each phone. The entries for the MJ is endless with complaints, solutions, fixes, etc. Ooma has maybe 10% of the complaints that MJ has. Going on almost four weeks with Ooma, I don't have one complaint as far as service goes.

If MJ had better service and customer support, I would prefer MJ as a phone because of the soft phone which Ooma doesn't have.
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dougweiser
MagicJack User


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I read that webpage right... Ooma costs 249.00??

If so, I am not surprised there are 10% of the complaints...not too many people are buying it...
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dougweiser wrote:
Did I read that webpage right... Ooma costs 249.00??

If so, I am not surprised there are 10% of the complaints...not too many people are buying it...


Or, they're charging enough to provide better service. People have to accept that they're paying $1.50 a month for MJ's unlimited usage. That can't possibly buy a lot of support.

Ooma looks interesting. What would worry me is that customers will eventually get into the same problem MJ customers are in. MJ is probably selling services at a loss to build a customer base. Ooma is pre-selling service to get revenue now. Can they really provide unlimited usage 5 years from now without any more revenue coming in from existing customers? (At least MJ has a plan to raise revenue by targeted advertising. Even though there is speculation it will never pan out.).

The choice seems to be between taking a service that is charging a rate today that can't possibly cover their costs (or the cost of perfect service). Or, *invest* in a future service with no idea how long it will take before the service is running in the red (which, by definition, has to happen based upon their own business model).

MJ looks like the better deal to me.

Mark

Mark
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dougweiser
MagicJack User


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you Mark..

It would take 10 years of MJ to equal the cost of the Ooma. I'll save my pennies now in hopes service gets better with MJ.

Long before my break-even point, something better, cheaper, or an entirely new technology will be upon us.

Doug
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shampooguy
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe not you, but quite a few people on this board have paid more than $40 for their magicjack...thin clients, dedicated machines, powered USB hub, buying different phones to try to get their MJ to work better/be more efficient...that stuff isn't free last time I looked into it. Add it all up and you're over the 200 level, not counting your time. I was just about to pull the trigger on a TC when I decided to cut my losses. My time isn't worth messing with it anymore.

The Ooma has been flawless for me, cost me $230 otd, and has features that actually work (call waiting, CID w/ name, local area code, number porting). I've made one call to tech support to shut off the ooma dial tone...that's it. I don't even need my computer on to use the thing. For me the ooma has been a huge relief.


dougweiser wrote:
I'm with you Mark..

It would take 10 years of MJ to equal the cost of the Ooma. I'll save my pennies now in hopes service gets better with MJ.

Long before my break-even point, something better, cheaper, or an entirely new technology will be upon us.

Doug
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shampooguy wrote:
Maybe not you, but quite a few people on this board have paid more than $40 for their magicjack...thin clients, dedicated machines, powered USB hub, buying different phones


That doesn't change the point I made. If someone chooses to invest more money in MJ (whether it's prepurchasing additional years of service, or investing in a thin client, or always-on laptop with flash drive), MJ's business model at least plans for ongoing revenue to pay the costs to provide service next year, and the year after. Both through annual subscription fees and targeted advertising.

Ooma looks significantly different. A one-time hardware fee, half of which must be going to the retailers. That's it. No annual costs for service.

I agree with concerns that MJ's $20 a year service charge can't cover their costs (that they've pinned their hopes on additional revenue from targeted advertising which hasn't been demonstrated yet). But, Ooma's revenue model eliminates any possibility of future revenue. If they sell millions of Ooma devices this year, who's paying for those users' service 2-3 years from now? That looks a lot more like a Ponzi scheme than MJ's model (which has some speculation, but isn't entirely speculative, based entirely on new users coming in, paying their one-time Ooma fee).

Mark
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shampooguy
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things have changed. Ooma now offers a premium service with more features for a monthly fee...not sure of the cost, but one of the features is the ability to add up to 4 lines.


az2008 wrote:
shampooguy wrote:
Maybe not you, but quite a few people on this board have paid more than $40 for their magicjack...thin clients, dedicated machines, powered USB hub, buying different phones


But, Ooma's revenue model eliminates any possibility of future revenue. If they sell millions of Ooma devices this year, who's paying for those users' service 2-3 years from now? That looks a lot more like a Ponzi scheme than MJ's model (which has some speculation, but isn't entirely speculative, based entirely on new users coming in, paying their one-time Ooma fee).

Mark
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shampooguy wrote:
Things have changed. Ooma now offers a premium service with more features for a monthly fee...not sure of the cost, but one of the features is the ability to add up to 4 lines.


I'd be concerned how many people are signing up for the "free" service which seems to be their main "come on" (free with a one-time hardware service). That offer has a self-destructive reality built into it.

What you're saying is that there is at least the potential that the recurring charges for their understated "premier" service will subsidize their primary (self-destructive) service. That wouldn't be too comforting to me as a user of either service.

Mark
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laserjobs
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 670

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is OOMA different than a ponzi scheme?

You can not offer free service that costs money without more suckers initially buying in
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laserjobs wrote:
How is OOMA different than a ponzi scheme?

You can not offer free service that costs money without more suckers initially buying in


Exactly. You can't offer "free service" (forever) in return for purchasing hardware once. That implies that the company's revenue is based upon the hardware purchase, and therefore new customers buying it (to pay for the return Ooma is paying to existing customers in the form of on going free service for their initial hardware investment). A classic definition of a Ponzi scheme.

Or, they've designed their hardware to break down in 2-4 years -- limiting Ooma's exposure. In that case it isn't a Ponzi scheme. Just an aggressive form of capitalism, playing on the customer's greed to get something for nothing.

Either way it doesn't look very good to me. But, I'll admit the latter possibility isn't much more offensive than MJ's web site with all the flashing lights, random number generators and "hurry, offer ends today" (every day) schticks.

Mark
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shampooguy
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a few "suckers" buying in...

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/09/23/a-lifeline-for-ooma-16-million-more-in-funding/

Those investors must be convinced of something. I could be wrong, but they may see something that members of an online forum don't.

Bottom line is that the thing works as advertised, and for 6-7 months worth of POTS, I'll give them a chance.


laserjobs wrote:
How is OOMA different than a ponzi scheme?

You can not offer free service that costs money without more suckers initially buying in
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shampooguy wrote:
Here's a few "suckers" buying in...
Those investors must be convinced of something.


That causes me to think the hardware is rigged not to last long. It's the surrogate for recurring charges. Customers believe they're making a one-time investment with "free" (Ooma's come on) use. Ooma and its investors apparently know differently.

Using your own logic, why else would investors buy into a business model with a one-time charge that one pay for a lifetime of "free" use? It has to involve rigged hardware so people have to keep buying in. The hardware simply serves as a diversion.

Or, they intend to change the model and have monthly charges after leading people into it. There has to be something more to the one-time charge that would cause investors to put their money into it. And, whatever that is doesn't necessarily have to be good (remember all the investors who put money into sub-prime mortgages?).

[Note: I'm still trying to understand what this thread had to do with Tips, tricks and hacks. It sounds like blatant advertising for Ooma.].

Mark
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Thunder
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is from the ooma web site. One way to make more $$

5 Use of Equipment and Services

* (a) Residential Use: We provide the Equipment and Services to you solely for residential use. The use of the term "unlimited" in conjunction with ooma's service offering as it appears on ooma packaging, in sponsored advertising, on the ooma Web site, and in third party marketing materials, refers to normal residential phone usage as defined herein. You agree to use the Equipment only in a manner consistent with normal residential usage patterns. You are prohibited from using the Equipment or any Services for auto-dialing, continuous, or extensive call forwarding, telemarketing (including, without limitation, charitable or political solicitation or polling), voicemail broadcasting, or fax or voicemail blasting or with regular, consistent activity that could be considered commercial or for-profit in nature ("Prohibited Use"). You agree we have the right to terminate your service if we conclude you are using the service for a Prohibited Use. In addition you agree that any usage of more than 3,000 minutes per month will be deemed dispositive proof of Prohibited Use. In the event you engage in Prohibited Use, ooma reserves the right to terminate service without notice or, at ooma's sole discretion, to charge you at a rate specified on our Web site for calls that exceed the 3,000-minute per month limitation. This rate may be modified on our Web site from time to time.
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Darkman90808
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 701

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thunder wrote:
This is from the ooma web site. One way to make more $$
<<snipped>> In addition you agree that any usage of more than 3,000 minutes per month will be deemed dispositive proof of Prohibited Use. In the event you engage in Prohibited Use, ooma reserves the right to terminate service without notice or, at ooma's sole discretion, to charge you at a rate specified on our Web site for calls that exceed the 3,000-minute per month limitation. This rate may be modified on our Web site from time to time.

My wife, daughter, and I have the 3,000 minute plan on our cell phones and occasionally have to watch our minutes towards the end of the month. My wife averages about 300; my daughter and I are the chatty ones and can easily use 1,200 - 1,500 minutes a month each.
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shampooguy
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the location of this thread, the mods should move it...it's just another Ooma thread started by sligg (or alias).

You make valid points, anything could happen. I'd like Ooma to be a long term solution for me, but I'm willing to accept that the business model may not work, or they may add extra fees (MJ may increase also). I also agree that equipment does fail...I have a lifetime sub to Sirius, and my receiver died after ~4 years, but thru various circumstances I was able to switch the lifetime to a new receiver for free. Not likely to catch this kind of break with Ooma, however I was pleased to read that they do value their customers to some extent - for those that initially plunked down the $400 early on, only to see the equipment price drop significantly, those folks have Ooma's premier service for free.

Sure MJ is just about the cheapest voip out there, with a seemingly good business model. It just didn't work for me and my family as a primary phone. You've heard of "happy wife, happy life"...not kidding, we had some good arguments about our MJ, and there was NO selling my friends on it..."your phone sucks", "get a real phone".

*still trying to justify Ooma*

So what other voip options are out there for me? There's a few companies that charge ~$200/yr for service, there's skype (similar performance as MJ for me), some free options which may or may not work good, and Ooma. After seeing the numerous positive reviews on Amazon for the Ooma, I was sold. I needed something that worked and I did not want to go back to ATT, no way.

Maybe we can just agree to disagree. If MJ works for you, great. If not, you unfortunately may have pick a different voip provider. Ooma was my best alternative, and fortunately it works just as good as POTS.



az2008 wrote:
shampooguy wrote:
Here's a few "suckers" buying in...
Those investors must be convinced of something.


That causes me to think the hardware is rigged not to last long. It's the surrogate for recurring charges. Customers believe they're making a one-time investment with "free" (Ooma's come on) use. Ooma and its investors apparently know differently.

Using your own logic, why else would investors buy into a business model with a one-time charge that one pay for a lifetime of "free" use? It has to involve rigged hardware so people have to keep buying in. The hardware simply serves as a diversion.

Or, they intend to change the model and have monthly charges after leading people into it. There has to be something more to the one-time charge that would cause investors to put their money into it. And, whatever that is doesn't necessarily have to be good (remember all the investors who put money into sub-prime mortgages?).

[Note: I'm still trying to understand what this thread had to do with Tips, tricks and hacks. It sounds like blatant advertising for Ooma.].

Mark
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shampooguy wrote:
Sure MJ is just about the cheapest voip out there, with a seemingly good business model. It just didn't work for me and my family as a primary phone.


I agree that MJ isn't easily a primary phone (without doing things like setting up a thin client or dedicated laptop).

I've read stories about MJ coming out with an ATA device (or a subscription model that allows ATA use). That would be good. Not only it be easier to have always-on service, but perhaps the codec would be different, with more compression. (I've read that one downside to the existing MJ service is that it uses a codec that doesn't compress as much as an ATA because it would require too much shared resources on the desktop. Sacrifices bandwidth for desktop speed.).

Mark
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taflocks
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i woulden't have anything to do with a product backed by ashton kutcher, i would be afraid of getting "punked" Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Exclamation Exclamation
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