Obama to Plumber: My Plan Will 'Spread the Wealth Around'

[BillyH]

Barack Obama told a tax-burdened plumber over the weekend that his economic philosophy is to "spread the wealth around" -- a comment that may only draw fire from riled-up John McCain supporters who have taken to calling Obama a "socialist" at the Republican's rallies.

Obama made the remark, caught on camera, after fielding some tough questions from the plumber Sunday in Ohio, where the Democratic candidate canvassed neighborhoods and encouraged residents to vote early.

"Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?" the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed "more and more for fulfilling the American dream."

"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too," Obama responded. "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

Obama's remarks drew fresh criticism on the blogosphere that the Illinois senator favors a breed of wealth redistribution.

Obama frequently rails against what he calls a Republican concept that tax breaks for the wealthy will somehow "trickle down" to middle-class Americans.

Obama says he will not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year.

However, McCain's aides and supporters argue that Obama wrongly wants to raise taxes on businesses in a time of economic distress.

Both candidates spent Monday discussing how they would resurrect the ailing economy. McCain again pointed to his plan to buy up cumbersome mortgages from homeowners and renegotiate them. Obama unveiled what he called an economic rescue plan for the middle class, which included a 90-day moratorium on foreclosures.

[AlaninKY]

You'll find Obama will actually raise taxes on most everyone. Yes, I said you'll find because he'll win in a landslide. So, you better watch your pockets because Obama will want to empty them so the masses can go feed at the public trough. The problem is there will be so many pigs at the trough the economy will crash hard and long in the next 4 years with Obama in charge. Hopefully the terrorists won't nuke us too!

[msiam]

Precisely, The problem is that the hungry pigs are trading their votes for the a place in line at the public trough.. You are hitting the nail on the head, Alan

[testing123]

Additional perspectives, could McCain be a "socialist"?

In his own words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8EyGpOU3qM

[cdwaldron]

Conversely, the hungry pigs at the top of the chain don't sell their vote......they BUY their favorite politician with W's latest tax break.

I didn't think anyone actually listened to the ranting of Michael Savage.

[VaHam]

Conversely, the hungry pigs at the top of the chain don't sell their vote......they BUY their favorite politician with W's latest tax break.

I didn't think anyone actually listened to the ranting of Michael Savage.

Actually most votes are bought with earmark additions to bills. This Pork Barrel spending and vote purchasing is much more harmful than anyone really realizes.

[kumar]

You'll find Obama will actually raise taxes on most everyone. Yes, I said you'll find because he'll win in a landslide. So, you better watch your pockets because Obama will want to empty them so the masses can go feed at the public trough. The problem is there will be so many pigs at the trough the economy will crash hard and long in the next 4 years with Obama in charge. Hopefully the terrorists won't nuke us too!

So everyone in this forum makes more then 250k a year?
KUmar

[taflocks]

if you are making $100,000 extra above it is only an extra $3,000
i think i can affoard that

[kumar]

Yeah.. besides if you are cashing in that much shit then you have no clue how to spend it (no offense) so at least its going to use.

Kumar

[VaHam]

The rhetoric and one liners do not do justice to understanding the implications of the tax cuts proposed by Obama and McCain. The notion that McCain's proposals would only benefit the rich and Obama's would benefit the middle class are just non sense.

First tax cuts are a good thing because they can provide the impetus to stimulate the economy. How do we know this? Because history provides great lessons for us if we take the time to study it.
Source: The Heritage Foundation - The Historical Lessons of Lower Tax Rates

The economy's sub-standard performance in recent years should come as no surprise. As seen below, major changes in tax policy inevitably affect growth.

* Across-the-board tax rate reductions in the 1920s reduced the top rate from 71 percent to 24 percent. The economy boomed, growing by 59 percent between 1921 and 1929.

* In 1930, Herbert Hoover raised tax rates from 25 percent to a maximum of 63 percent, and Franklin Roosevelt boosted them to 79 percent later in the decade. The 1930s, to put it mildly, are not remembered as one of the American economy's better decades.

The fact is that when the "rich" are taxed higher they simply move their money to various tax shelters and out of productive enterprises. Jobs are lost and the economy suffers.

The history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business and invest it in tax-exempt securities or to find other lawful methods of avoiding the realization of taxable income. The result is that the sources of taxation are drying up; wealth is failing to carry its share of the tax burden; and capital is being diverted into channels which yield neither revenue to the Government nor profit to the people.

Andrew Mellon, Taxation: The People's Business (New York: Macmillan, 1924)

Now the rhetoric about Obama's tax plans being for the middle class just does not hold water, as I will show you below.

Lets look at the real differences between the tax cut plans of Obama and McCain. I started reading an article at CNNmoney.com entitled What they'll do to your tax bill. That article provides a nice table of data provided by the Tax Policy Center. This table breaks down the differences in your tax bill under the plans of both Obama and McCain. What surprised me was how little difference there was for what at least I consider the "middle class". According to Wikipedia the median income in 2007 for a male was just over 50K and for a female just over 35K. Perhaps I am strange but most folks I know now live in households where both spouses work meaning that the median household would be 85K.

I wanted to get a better feel for the differences between the two plans so I did a little spread sheet work and produced the following from the data cited above.

I had to drop the highest and lowest number in order to present the data on the graph but you can just look at the number and see that if someone has no income at all and gets a tax credit then the difference is infinite. The high end would have to be scaled to an unknown number to encompass the highest income earner likewise.

Please notice that for most of the people I know who are in the middle class there is less than 1% difference between the tax cut proposals offered by Obama vs McCain in terms of changes to your tax bill. There are dramatic differences at both the extreme top and bottom of the income scales.

This is what McCain means when he talks about a return to welfare and what Obama means when he talks about spreading the wealth. Welfare unfortunately does nothing to stimulate the economy however laudable it may be and therefore will not help to heal our economic woes. With McCain's plan however as you can see from the links above history has shown us will work to stimulate the economy and create jobs thus leading us out of economic hard times.

You might say to yourself I don't care if the rich have to pay more to support welfare since it is not coming out of my pocket. Now consider that when you raise taxes on businesses they don't really pay that increase; they simply increase the cost of the goods and services they provide to make up the difference. So who really pays for that? The consumer does. So what goes out of your back account increases when the "rich" are taxed more heavily and hurts even more when jobs are lost and productivity go down.

History has taught us this lesson over and over and still some are naive enough to believe in the "free lunch".

[kumar]

Ok.. getting to complicated.. im outa the discussion
nice graphs btw...
:-p
Peace
Kumar