Deceptive License Upgrade

[dlpmpls]

I had a one year license which expires 04-23-2009. On 11-27-2008 I clicked on an ad for existing users to get an additional 5 years of service that would expire 11-28-3009. This appeared on my magicjack soft phone, cost was $59.95. When I entered the activation code for the additional 5 years it said my license would expire 04-23-20013. Where I went to school that only adds up to 4 additional years. I contacted customer service and was told that's how it works. No where in their advertisement did they say that's how it works. As I had almost 5 months left on the first license I purchased in 0-23-2008, I figured just refund me for the second license I bought for 5 years as I had not used any of that license yet. I was told no because I had already activated the 5 year license. There was no information in the advertisement that the new license wouldn't be added on to the previous license, or when you activated the new license it would void the previous license even if you still had time left on the previous license.

Below is my chat with customer service

Please wait for a site operator to respond.

You are now chatting with 'Imarie'

Imarie: Hello, how may I help you?

Dan: I recently purchased the Five Year Platinum Preferred Plan, before I entered the activation code it said my license is active through 4-23-2009, after I entered Five Year Platinum Preferred Plan code it said my license was active through 4-23-2013, thats only 4 years!!!! I want my other year or refund my money.

Imarie: May I have your sales order number please

Dan: Order No.: TS0057XXXX

Imarie: Thank you.

Imarie: I need to check that. May I put you on hold while I'll find you the information?

Dan: yes

Imarie: Thank you.

Imarie: Thank you for waiting.

Imarie: May I know when did you purchased Five Year Platinum Preferred Plan?

Dan: 11-27-2008

Imarie: Okay.

Imarie: It's not possible to purchase next year's service unless your old service is not expired.

Imarie: And it's still activated.

Dan: yes was still activated when I ordred

Imarieordered: Please wait while I check that for you

Dan: ok

Imarie: Thank you.

Imarie: Thank you for your patience. I will transfer you to a higher level of support. Please hold while I transfer you.

Dan: thank you

Please wait while I transfer the chat to the best suited site operator.

You are now chatting with 'Ermin'

Ermin: Hi... Ermin here, I'll be assisting you today... How are you? Please give me time to read your previous chats...

Dan: I'm good will wait

Ermin: Thank you for waiting, may i know if you want a refund for the platinum plan only? just to clarify Dan.

Dan: If can't get the full 5 years that I paid for added on to my existing license I want a refund

Ermin: May i know if that plan is already activated on your Magicjack?

Dan: yes I activated the new plan, that's how I found out I didn't get the full 5 years

Ermin: As i double check your record in our data base, it says that your license with the magicjack will expire 04/23/2013, so it means that your 5yr plan is active, i do apologize but we cannot refund your platinum plam.

Dan: the plan was for 5 years right?

Ermin: The total years of service in your platinum plan is 5 years it includes your first year of Mj service.

Dan: well your ad for 5 years is very deceptive and as I used a credit card all I have to do is dispute the charge and my credit card company will put it back in my account. also will fill a report with the better business bureau.

Ermin: I do apologize for the inconvenience Dan.

Dan: means nothing to me

Ermin: Is there anything else I may help you with today?

Dan: no


I now have paid for 6 years of service which according to maicjack only equals 5 years of service. total cost $79.90. Still cheap by most standards, I would agree but I did some checking on magicjack with the Florida BBB. I found out they Have a F rating, my experience has been companies with F ratings don't normally stay in business for 5 years.

Better Business Bureau
http://www.seflorida.bbb.org/BusinessRe ... D=92003333



Company Rating F Our opinion of what this rating means:

We strongly question the company’s reliability for reasons such as that they have failed to respond to complaints, their advertising is grossly misleading, they are not in compliance with the law’s licensing or registration requirements, their complaints contain especially serious allegations, or the company’s industry is known for its fraudulent business practices.

Complaint Experience: Bureau Summary and Analysis of customer complaints and company responses

Our file contains a pattern of complaints from consumers who allege they were offered a free thirty-day trial period for their product. After accepting the offer consumers’ allege funds were withdrawn from their account before the end of the free thirty-day trial period. Consumers also allege experiencing difficulty in contacting the company and receiving refunds. The company has responded to complaints by issuing a refund however they have failed to eliminate the underlying cause of consumer complaints. We have received a significant number of complaints against this company. In at least some cases, the complaint allegations are serious.

Magic Jack LP
PO Box 6846
West Palm Beach, FL 33405
Phone: (561) 594-2140
Contact: Peter Russo - CFO
Business Start Date: 4/13/2007
Company ID: 92003333

[Darkman90808]

Dan: well your ad for 5 years is very deceptive and as I used a credit card all I have to do is dispute the charge and my credit card company will put it back in my account. also will fill a report with the better business bureau.

I agree. I would dispute the charges, get a refund and take my business elsewhere. Case closed.

[tloe]

This should be a word to the wise! The 5 year plan is a joke; the service simply isn't expensive enough to bother with it. Considering that MJ may not be around in 5 years, it's best just to pay year to year and see what happens.

[az2008]

This should be a word to the wise! The 5 year plan is a joke; the service simply isn't expensive enough to bother with it. Considering that MJ may not be around in 5 years, it's best just to pay year to year and see what happens.

I view the additional-years discount to be like investing (or gambling). If someone has some money to invest, I think 5 years for $60 is a great deal. It's not a lot of money to lose. The potential payoff is great.

If a person goes into it with that "it's just business" attitude, there's not much room to be disappointed.

Considering it analytically like that, I'd be more concerned that the USB device will go out (or be improved and beneficial for replacement) within 5 years. I've read stories of people who couldn't transfer unused years to their new MJ device.

I'd be more concerned about that than the business going under. I'd buy 10 years at the recent Black Friday discount price if I knew MJ's portal allowed for transferring unused time to another unit. I'd bet $120 on the company in return for 10 years of free telephone. I'd be willing to lose $120 for that potential return on investment.

Everyone has different risk/reward benefits. That's just my own.

Mark

[couch-potato]

So if I understand this correctly.....

My current contract expires in March 2009

If I buy the five year plan now....

1) it is not five years added on to when my current contract will expire -
giving me a new expiry date of March 2014

2) it is not five years from the day I buy the five year plan -
giving me a new expiry date of November 2013 - thus cancelling any remaining time on my current contract

3) it is five years from when I first activated my current plan -
giving me a new expiry date of March 2013 - thus cancelling my first contract entirely

When I log-in and click "extend your license" the options are "extend your license by four years" for $59.95

I think that is what they are trying to say with this promotion. You are extending your one-year contract to a five-year contract, adding four additional years. So you've already paid $20, pay $60 more, and it ends up to be $80 for five years.

Thanks for all the comments so far in this thread. I was tempted to get it, but given that the company might not be around for five years, and the device itself might not last for five years, I think I'll just renew each year as each contract runs out. It's cheap enough now, but my only fear is they drastically increase the prices before my time comes up for renewal.

[az2008]

So if I understand this correctly.....

One option may be to contact dead chat and ask two questions:

1) Does the "Black Friday" sale (5 years for $59.95) add to the time I already purchased?

2) If my USB unit fails in the next 5 years, and I purchase a new one (with one year), will I be able to 2a) assign my original number to the new unit, and 2b) transfer my previously purchased time to the newly purchased year?

If you can get a dead-chat person to commit to those things, and you keep a copy, it seems like you'd be on strong ground to demand escalation in the future.

Mark

[az2008]

There was no information in the advertisement that the new license wouldn't be added on to the previous license, or when you activated the new license it would void the previous license even if you still had time left on the previous license.

Couch-potato helped me see what's going on. The information *is* there. You just didn't read the final page after clicking "order."

However, I agree with you that this is extremely sleazy on Dan's (MJ's) part. I've always been a little disturbed with MJ's marketing methods. But, I just thought they were too aggressive to the point of being tasteless, reflecting badly on a good product. But, this so-called "5-year" plan really crosses the line in my opinion. It reflects very badly on Dan's character and the MJ company.

The advertisement clearly says you're buying 5 years. When you click the ad, and sign-in, it displays the regular price of 5 years (19.99 x 5 = 99.95). And, it says you'll "Save $40.00 each!"

There's no way to read that except that you're purchasing 5-year units for "$59.95 each."

But, when you click the "Order" button, it quietly (compared to the bold advertising statements) says you're only extending your license "by" (up to) 5 years. And, that you can only buy one (which makes sense, but makes the previous page's "each" language look even more intentionally misleading.).

What a rotten company to go so far out of their way to mislead customers, helping them do the wrong thing. It's not just misleading prospective customers, but actually trying to damage *existing* customers.

Unbelievable. I'm tempted to file my own BBB complaint. My opinion of Dan and MJ (the company) has become very negative after seeing this stunt. I think it speaks volumes about Dan's character. It also says a lot about MJ (the product) that it can be successful *despite* the best efforts of Dan to alienate even his existing customers!

Mark

[ret27m]

I think this is a bad business practice also, that being said I feel that the MJ its self is an exellent product and works very well, my entire family has converted as we are scattered around the US, and in my local area these things are flying off the shelves, we are starting to see MJ ads during prime time. I dont understand why MJ (Dan) would do this, I wonder if he monitors this forum and others like it. Are there any members here that have a good link to his ear and could bring this to his attention? I'd like to think its just a new company making normal mistakes. I'm not defending this 5 year fiasco but I wont quit the service as long as my device preforms as well as it has been because I'm saving big $$$ with it, and I really want this device/service to survive. Reporting this to the BBB wont have much of an effect as the rating is already an F and I dont think there is a lower rating.

[az2008]

Reporting this to the BBB wont have much of an effect as the rating is already an F and I dont think there is a lower rating.

It just increases the number of unresponded complaints. Presumably Dan would start to have some shame at some number.

I agree with you that MJ as a product is great. But, it could be so much greater without these kinds of unethical antics. I tried to recommend the Radio Shack deal to a friend. He googled for MJ complaints and sent me some links to huge lists of complaints. His response was "this doesn't sound like what I'd be interested in." I felt a little ashamed to have suggested it to him.

And now, with this recent revelation of MJ going out of their way to deceive their own *existing* customers, I'm glad my friend didn't buy it.

I've always said that MJ makes it very hard to recommend people to it because the first thing you normally do when making a recommendation is provide a URL. But, the MJ home page is sleazy. I've dismissed stuff like this as just over-ambitious salesmanship, never quite crossing the line. But, raising red flags for most rational people.

But, this 5-year scam crosses the line for me. There's no way to reconcile the two "come on" screens with the final screen where you commit to the purchase. They say opposite things. It's not like you can read the last screen into the first two. It's *opposite*.

You're the lucky one. As you said, 4-1/2 years is better than the usual 4-year deal. You just didn't get 5 years. Someone like me (who already purchased 4 additional years) would only get 6 additional months for $59.95. It's very possible I wouldn't have noticed the subtle change in description on that last screen.

I believe Dan and MJ (as a company) really demonstrated something negative about their character with this stunt. I've defended MJ in the past. It's going to be much harder (and probably not worth the effort) now. This stunt makes them look like scum.

Mark

[cdwaldron]

Amen, Mark. I love the device but I will not be recommending it to anyone anymore. MJ deserves all the bad press it will recieve from this.

Chuck

[ret27m]

I wont cut off my nose to spite my face, I want to see this device survive because its saving me well over $440.00 per year. I will continue to let folks know of the device but I will piont out its flaws. Even with its negitives there is NOTHING out there as cheap as MJ and works ALMOST flawlessly.

[az2008]

I wont cut off my nose to spite my face, I want to see this device survive because its saving me well over $440.00 per year. I will continue to let folks know of the device but I will piont out its flaws. Even with its negitives there is NOTHING out there as cheap as MJ and works ALMOST flawlessly.

I agree. I don't like doing business with such a questionable outfit. But, I like the good deal I'm getting.

I don't mind recommending it to others. But, there are so many disclaimers that I have to add that, I usually find myself saying "ahhhh, never mind."

This latest stunt is just one more disclaimer to add to the list: Even if you get past MJ's treacherous initiation of new customers (advertising that makes you feel like you should take a shower; overcharging; no support), be careful with any "deals" offered to you because MJ doesn't have your best interest at heart.

MJ's a great value. But, if it survives it will be *despite* Dan's scummy business practices.

Mark

[ret27m]

Dispite the sad sales practices of MJ I live in a VERY depressed area and the folks that I have turned on to the device are VERY grateful to have it, this device makes it possible for them to have an internet connection and a phone, as to where before it was either one or the other due to financial restraints, again I point out the negitives but the savings are far better than the negitives. My advice to them is pay it year by year.

[az2008]

I was told no [refund] because I had already activated the 5 year license.

That's circular reasoning. You don't know Pick-Pocket Dan worked his magic on you until you activate what you purchased. It's very convenient for MJ to say it's too late for a refund after you activate it. They can't lose under these circumstances.

You should dispute the charge with your credit card company. Unfortunately, they might shut down your account due to non-payment now that they switched it over to a different plan (which you want to stop payment on).

Your only recourse may be to file a complaint with your state's attorney general. And with the BBB (as if one more complaint will make any difference). And then buy a new MJ unit if you really think it's worth the money despite the scummy character of the company's founder.

Mark

[az2008]

FYI: There has been one report that someone's expiration date was inexplicably extended one more year. This was someone who bought the so-called 5-year plan that turned out to be a 4-year plan.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21528532-

If anyone else notices things were made right, please post. I'm curious if this was just a "fix" for this one guy, or if they're doing the right thing for everyone who bought it.

Mark

[ret27m]

Wonder if he would mind doing a print screen of the exp date?

[az2008]

Wonder if he would mind doing a print screen of the exp date?

Someone else (who bought the 4-year "5-year" deal) posted to that thread that their expiration date was bumped up a year. Maybe everyone who bought the special got bumped up a year.

Now I wish I'd bought it.

Mark

[ret27m]

I took the plunge....I got my code punched it in, rechecked and my exp year is 2014....

[dlpmpls]

After filing a cmplaint with the BBB magicjack has agreed to refund me my money.

Company's Response
Company's Initial Response - Posted 12/01/2008
This customer was refunded for the five year plan on 12/01/08 however it may take up to five business days for this transaction to be reflected in the customer's bank/credit statement.
Initial Response Summary
The five year plan has been refunded

note I still have the remaining time from my initial license.

It seems some have been able to get their full 5 years added on the their initial license though for most I suspect that wasn't the case, maybe they have got enough complaints to change.

I wasn't aware of their F rating with the BBB before I purchased the 5 year so called extension, if I had I probably wouldn't purchased it. I agree magicjack can save you a lot money but there are so many potential problems I can no longer recommend them.

[ret27m]

I've recomended it to ALOT of people, ALL have thanked me and ALL are happy, altho I got the full 5 years I tell people that there is no garantee they will. And I will continue to recomend MJ service as I dont see potential problems, for $1.66 a month I almost feel like i'm stealing, mine works flawlessly.

[kumar]

**phew** I was so tempted to get 5 years (or w.e you call it:) plan. Good thing I hit the 1 year addition!

Kumar

[az2008]

**phew** I was so tempted to get 5 years (or w.e you call it:) plan. Good thing I hit the 1 year addition!

My concern about buying more than 1 year was that I felt there was little chance MJ would be around 4-5 years with the kind of sleazy business practice demonstrated with the "5 year plan" (which was really 4 years, and circular reasoning about how you couldn't get a refund after you discovered it).

Now that Shake-Down Dan's gotten honest on that offer, and resolved at least one BBB complaint, maybe that signals Dan has a new found concern for his reputation. If so, that would mean better odds of MJ being around 4-5 years.

Investing in a VOIP company is risky even without the owner shooting himself in the foot at every opportunity. But, investing is just risk/reward analysis. There's some amount of money at which everyone would be willing to lose it for the prospect of 4-5 years "free" telephone service. $60 is well within my range. *If* all I'm betting on is a VOIP company, and the known perils they face. If it's a jacka$$ owner who seems intent on self destructing, then forget it. I'd rather place $60 side bets with those who believe the company can survive the owner.

Mark

[dampier]

Dan apparently met with the BBB and had the "F" rating deleted! It's now shown as "NR" - Not rated. The BBB admits this was done at the behest of the company's owner, who has promised to repent from alleged deceptive company advertising.

It appears most of the complaints deal with the 30 day free trial becoming a paid trial when the company charges your card before the 30 days are up.

Actually, what they seem to do is put a temporary authorization on your card, which can hold up funds for up to two weeks, which is usually not noticeable on credit cards but absolutely does get noticed on a debit card, when checking account funds become temporarily inaccessible until the temp authorization drops off.

I personally did not encounter any issue with the 30 day trial - they billed me at the end of it.

[az2008]

Dan apparently met with the BBB and had the "F" rating deleted! It's now shown as "NR" - Not rated. The BBB admits this was done at the behest of the company's owner, who has promised to repent from alleged deceptive company advertising.

What's hysterical about this is that, just 3 days later, Double-Dip Dan was peddling 4 years of service as 5 years.

MagicJack is a great idea. It's too bad it was Dan's idea.

Mark

[tonytony24]

i am planning to extend by 5yrs as well. I was wondering if the 4yr issue has been resolved? Just wanted to give the final word before I hit the submit button.

[couch-potato]

Me too!

Now that the "Black Friday Special" has been extended indefitinitely....

My first year is almost up, and I'm considering the five year plan, but would like to know if it's still just a four-year-plan.

I guess the best way to find out would be to go ahead and order it - but watch very carefully for the fine print that says when the license expires.

[az2008]

I guess the best way to find out would be to go ahead and order it - but watch very carefully for the fine print that says when the license expires.

In the past you wouldn't know you only got 4 years until you applied the "redemption code" received in your email. But, that was the beauty of the deal. Chat support would tell you they couldn't refund the money after you redeemed the code. (You gotta admire these guys for their complete lack of shame.).

However, I think you're safe. I remember everyone who purchased was bumped up another year a week later. And, I think I saw a couple people say they bought and got 5 years after that.

Personally, I would buy year-to-year. But, if $60 isn't a lot to lose, it might be a good gamble.

Mark

Mark

[911pcdoc]

was wondering how it turned on for you all mine is also about to run out and i am considering the 5 year thing! i was gonna wait till the last month and then try it and see if i get 5 years or what??

[sanderson_111]

[quote="dampier"]Dan apparently met with the BBB and had the "F" rating deleted! It's now shown as "NR" - Not rated. The BBB admits this was done at the behest of the company's owner, who has promised to repent from alleged deceptive company advertising.


It is my many years of dealing with business organizations is the following
in my opinion "If your a business and a complaint is filed against you in the BBB in most cases all a business has to do to get it removed is to become a member of the BBB jurisdiction" Thus in my Opinion "What I found is that like many other organizations the BBB is more about helping it's paying members before following its code of ethics and mission statements, thus it is less likly to say anything about a paying member."

[CA-Genevieve]

If you look at companies that offer extended warranties on products you purchase, you will see that it is the same story. Many people don't realize that the company (usually) already has a one year warranty. Therefore, when the store in which you purchase your products tries to get you to take a one or two year extended warranty, you are actually only get a year extended to begin with! I've never seen a warranty in which it actually extends the time they are claiming. Because the warranty does not start when the other one expires. It starts from the day of purchase!

So, if you buy a car that has a three year warranty, then take an extended warranty for 4 years, it doesn't start after the 3 year warranty expires, it starts at the date of purchase, just like any other warranty. Therefore, MJ is doing what all of the other companies are doing. Therefore, you are only actually getting an extra year.

I can't recall if the magic jack stated that it's an additional 5 years. However, that would be the keyword to look for in any situation like this.

[kcowan]

I went to their web site on June 4th and purchased a one-year extension because the MJ was activated June 4, 2008. No problem and no hassle (other than having to bear their aweful web site).

I would never buy more than one year until MJ cleans up their act. They are financing their business on the backs of 5-year renewers. Let them get venture capital like every other startup. At least the VCs will demand some business discipline.