Interesting, But Too Little Too Late...

[lcompton]

Good evening.

Do consider reading this Reuters article on Verizon's alleged plan to offer low-cost home telephony service to folks who call them to drop service.

This is the first indication I've seen in the press that Verizon is feeling the financial pressure of losing telephony subscribers. The article doesn't mention VoIP competition by name, but I'm guessing magicJack and Skype are probably among the more serious threats since they offer comparable telephony service at a significantly reduced annual rate.

I don't see Vonage as a major threat because their USD24.95/month service requires broadband, which is more expensive when not purchasing telephony from Verizon or television from Comcast.

Verizon is also pushing to get us legacy DSL subscribers on to FiOS. I actually received a house call last week from a young fellow trying to get me onto FiOS. I explained to him that I cannot afford FiOS and he proceeded to lunge into his bundled service lecture about how great a deal I would get with FiOS television and telephony.

The house call ended quickly when I explained to him that I don't pay for television because I receive digital television over-the-air. I receive 30 digital channels with perfect picture and CD-quality audio. About one-third of the digital channels offer HD content. Then I explained to him how I receive unlimited local, toll and long-distance calling, caller ID and voicemail from Skype for USD59.50/annum. I explained to him that my biggest monthly cost is Verizon DSL as USD41.99 and that him coming to my home to offer me the basic FiOS Internet access package for USD49.99/month really doesn't help me.

I don't believe he was a happy camper when he left. Hehe.

I don't believe it will ever happen, but I wish broadband access rates would come down about 50%. Oh well... I can wish if I want to.

[Boondocs]

my biggest monthly cost is Verizon DSL as USD41.99

There charging you that much? Do you have Verizon wireless? If so you can get a dryloop bundle with the two as long as your cell plan is 450min or more a month. I pay 29.99 per month for my dsl + the cost of the cell service.

[lcompton]

Good evening. Boondocs.

my biggest monthly cost is Verizon DSL as USD41.99

There charging you that much? Do you have Verizon wireless? If so you can get a dryloop bundle with the two as long as your cell plan is 450min or more a month. I pay 29.99 per month for my dsl + the cost of the cell service.

O.M.G.! You are totally awesome!

I've been using T-Mobile, but I just signed up with Verizon wireless on 26 January. I really wanted to get a Blackberry and Verizon had the cutest Blackberry Pearl 8130 in pastel pink. The Blackberry was free and they waived the USD35.00 activation fee so I was like, hey, why not?! And, it so happens that I signed up for the 450 minute/month plan.

I'm calling Verizon tomorrow about this. That would be totally awesome if I could get them to trim USD12.00 off of my monthly DSL bill.

[mberlant]

The proposal discussed in the Reuters article makes sense for both Verizon and for the customer. I have said for years that VoIP is a wonderful replacement for Long Distance, but a miserable replacement for POTS. This seems to be the precise positioning of the proposed Verizon offering. If I were Verizon I would include dial out to toll free numbers and the ability to place other calls for a per-minute charge, just like in the good old days of Message Units.

The customer would retain the always on, always ready service necessary to enable reliable receipt of incoming calls and guaranteed 911 service.

And Verizon would be able to charge money for doing something they already do in most markets for free. Nowadays, when a customer disconnects from a Verizon, Qwest or AT&T line a Dial Tone remains. This is so the next occupant of that house or apartment can use that phone to dial 0 for a phone company Operator who will connect the prospective customer with the Business Office. Since the phone company already knows the physical location of the phone line, 911 service is still available. Even though it will be reported to the 911 PSAP as an out of service phone line, the 911 dispatcher needs only treat the caller as if calling from a pay phone. For $5.00 a month, all Verizon needs to do is associate a phone number and a customer name to this already working wire pair.

Everybody wins, including the customer who can enjoy VoIP phone service without the headache of trying to port a phone number into a company that doesn't have the infrastructure or the ethics to receive it.

[lcompton]

Good evening, mberlant.

The proposal discussed in the Reuters article makes sense for both Verizon and for the customer. I have said for years that VoIP is a wonderful replacement for Long Distance, but a miserable replacement for POTS. This seems to be the precise positioning of the proposed Verizon offering. If I were Verizon I would include dial out to toll free numbers and the ability to place other calls for a per-minute charge, just like in the good old days of Message Units.

Of course, no one can predict the future. But, I believe an attempt on Verizon's part to offer crippled telephony service at a reduced rate is doomed to failure. While it is true that Verizon may be able to frighten some less savvy consumers into believing that they absolutely need to retain a landline so the government can come and rescue them when a perpetrator enters their home and threatens to murder them with a baseball bat or a .45 ACP semi-automatic pistol, I suspect most people will recognize that the added expense isn't necessary.

The customer would retain the always on, always ready service necessary to enable reliable receipt of incoming calls and guaranteed 911 service.

True, but will consumers perceive any value to this en masse? I don't believe so. I had always ready telephony and access to 911 (even though I don't want it) with magicJack. Now, I have always ready telephony with Skype. True, I don't have 911 access through Skype, but that's a plus as far as I'm concerned.

And Verizon would be able to charge money for doing something they already do in most markets for free. Nowadays, when a customer disconnects from a Verizon, Qwest or AT&T line a Dial Tone remains. This is so the next occupant of that house or apartment can use that phone to dial 0 for a phone company Operator who will connect the prospective customer with the Business Office. Since the phone company already knows the physical location of the phone line, 911 service is still available. Even though it will be reported to the 911 PSAP as an out of service phone line, the 911 dispatcher needs only treat the caller as if calling from a pay phone. For $5.00 a month, all Verizon needs to do is associate a phone number and a customer name to this already working wire pair.

Well, no. Some CLEC's engage in this practice. However, when I disconnected my landline last June, the line went dead -- completely dead. I don't have hard data on the ratio of CLEC's that leave dial tone with limited calling services to CLEC's that completely disconnect the line, but I'm guessing the greater proportion of CLEC's completely disconnect the line when a landline is canceled.

Everybody wins, including the customer who can enjoy VoIP phone service without the headache of trying to port a phone number into a company that doesn't have the infrastructure or the ethics to receive it.

Again, no one knows what the future holds. But, I believe Verizon knows this is a doomed tactic and they may be considering it to help slow the loss of revenue while they look for new sources of sustainable revenue.

Another factor is that our youngest people today don't even bother with landlines. There is solid demographic market data showing that the 20-somethings are going straight for the wireless telephones and bypassing landline service altogether.

As always, time will tell.

[mberlant]

I also resent having to pay for having 911 available on a VoIP line, and resent the three Vonage customers in Texas who were too ignorant to know the difference between their 'Long Distance' phone and their regular phone, and convinced the Texas AG to lobby the FCC for protection from themselves.

I grew up in a time before 911 and 440-1234, when we had a sticker on the phone with the local emergency number(s) and were taught (by our parents, our teachers and the phone company representative who visited our school) how to give our name, address and the nature of our emergency to the dispatcher. I refuse to believe that Americans are so much dumber today than we were back then that they can't accomplish this, too.

[lcompton]

Good evening, mberlant.

I grew up in a time before 911 and 440-1234, when we had a sticker on the phone with the local emergency number(s) and were taught (by our parents, our teachers and the phone company representative who visited our school) how to give our name, address and the nature of our emergency to the dispatcher.

Yep, same here. The hilarious thing is that we no longer have the option to call our local police department, fire department or ambulance service if we have an emergency. It's 911 or go-to-hell. Nice.

There are a lot of problems with 911 that people don't realize. I have a very bad 911 experience. So, I want nothing to do with 911.

I refuse to believe that Americans are so much dumber today than we were back then that they can't accomplish this, too.

If only this were true. It seems to me that an increasing number of people want their government to pamper them. In my experience, pampering usually comes with strings -- like letting other people decide what's best for you. No thanks. I'll take care of myself.

If I had my druthers, I would only be aware of the existence of our government once each year -- on 15 April. Even that would be more than I want, but I could live with it.

[hsweiss]

I read about this last night - Verizon will be providing dial-tone for incoming and emergency outbound for $5/month trying to stem the tide of losing their land-line customers. From the article I read, it was not clear if they would offer a per "message unit" charge (aka, a charge per local call, e.g., 9 cents/call).

BTW, I too was pushed into FiOS because I could not get Verizon to install DSL even though the local CO is DSL provisioned. I was able to order service, obtained the installation kit, and then they canceled my order w/o telling me why. It turns out the distance (at the time) from the CO had to be under 15K feet. I was just over the mark. About a year later Verizon raised the limit to 18K feet but I was still not able to order DSL. I complained and got a very good customer engineer to track down the reason and look for alternatives for me such as alternate routing, etc. I was amazed how much of a customer advocate this guy was. Unfortunately, he was not able to solve the problem because apparently I'm on "bad copper" and the error rates were too high for even 768 DSL service. So I eventually caved in and got FiOS but only for broadband and they moved my POTS land-line to the fiber too (despite my protests because now land-line is on wall power and battery backup as opposed to CO power).

The big difference in price was that DSL was under $20 and FiOS was $40. I'm on a new agreement with Verizon that raised my service from 5M down/2M up to 10M down/2M up for $41/month (with a Verizon POTS land-line).

And on the subject of 911 vs. call your local police station - at least around here in the Baltimore burbs, they ask you to call the police station directly (phone numbers provided) if its not a 911 emergency.

[az2008]

If I had my druthers, I would only be aware of the existence of our government once each year -- on 15 April. Even that would be more than I want, but I could live with it.

That sounds nice. But, most people who talk the talk don't walk the walk. Like how they aren't really willing to give up the SEC which makes their investing choices (and "market"-based outcomes) more predictable. Nor banking regulations, which alleviate them of a hefty dose of "caveat emptor" when choosing a bank. Nor food and drug quality laws (which do the same thing). Nor zoning laws which protect them from their neighbors' choices of how to dispose of their own property. Nor building codes, which make your purchase of homes (new and existing) easier. Nor, social creation of corporate charters (by state legislatures, a "legal" yet fictional "person" to facilitate business).

I can count on one hand the number of true libertarians who would say "I'd get rid of all that too." And, of course, they're part of the irrelevant fringe since 99.9999% of Americans *like* those things, and therefore our system of socialized capitalism.

Where do you fall? (We may need to take this to the lounge?).

Mark

[Boondocs]

Good evening. Boondocs.

my biggest monthly cost is Verizon DSL as USD41.99

There charging you that much? Do you have Verizon wireless? If so you can get a dryloop bundle with the two as long as your cell plan is 450min or more a month. I pay 29.99 per month for my dsl + the cost of the cell service.

O.M.G.! You are totally awesome!

I've been using T-Mobile, but I just signed up with Verizon wireless on 26 January. I really wanted to get a Blackberry and Verizon had the cutest Blackberry Pearl 8130 in pastel pink. The Blackberry was free and they waived the USD35.00 activation fee so I was like, hey, why not?! And, it so happens that I signed up for the 450 minute/month plan.

I'm calling Verizon tomorrow about this. That would be totally awesome if I could get them to trim USD12.00 off of my monthly DSL bill.

FYI in case they give you a hard time about it. Here is the info directly from their site.
http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel ... d-and.html

[robatino]

lcompton: Verizon has 3 DSL plans. The highest (7.1 Mbits) has a $5 difference between with and without POTS ($38 vs. $43/month). The lower ones (3 Mbits and 1 Mbit) have only a $2 difference ($28 vs. $30/month and $18 vs. $20/month, resp.).

http://www22.verizon.com/Residential/Hi ... /Plans.htm

[lcompton]

Good evening, hsweiss.

I read about this last night - Verizon will be providing dial-tone for incoming and emergency outbound for $5/month trying to stem the tide of losing their land-line customers. From the article I read, it was not clear if they would offer a per "message unit" charge (aka, a charge per local call, e.g., 9 cents/call).

I'd be cautious about using the word will. The author of that article contacted Verizon spokespeople and all they would say is that Verizon is studying their options. Verizon may not do anything. Time will tell...

BTW, I too was pushed into FiOS because I could not get Verizon to install DSL even though the local CO is DSL provisioned. I was able to order service, obtained the installation kit, and then they canceled my order w/o telling me why. It turns out the distance (at the time) from the CO had to be under 15K feet. I was just over the mark. About a year later Verizon raised the limit to 18K feet but I was still not able to order DSL. I complained and got a very good customer engineer to track down the reason and look for alternatives for me such as alternate routing, etc. I was amazed how much of a customer advocate this guy was. Unfortunately, he was not able to solve the problem because apparently I'm on "bad copper" and the error rates were too high for even 768 DSL service. So I eventually caved in and got FiOS but only for broadband and they moved my POTS land-line to the fiber too (despite my protests because now land-line is on wall power and battery backup as opposed to CO power).

The Verizon house call gentleman who paid me a visit didn't try to push me into FiOS. I would describe it as enthusiastic encouragement. On the other hand, my intuition told me that during our conversation he was taking a temperature reading on how receptive I might be to being dragged into FiOS whether I like it or not. So, it is conceivable that he returned to his masters at Verizon with a report on receptiveness of the subscribers to being pushed into the FiOS product line. LOL One thing is for sure, I know I didn't leave him with the impression of being receptive. Hehe.

The big difference in price was that DSL was under $20 and FiOS was $40. I'm on a new agreement with Verizon that raised my service from 5M down/2M up to 10M down/2M up for $41/month (with a Verizon POTS land-line).

Nice. The house call guy offered me FiOS (10Mbps downstream/2Mbps upstream) for USD44.99/month with a telephony subscription or USD49.99/month without telephony. Apparently, in the FiOS world, there is only a USD5.00/month penalty charge for not purchasing Verizon's uncompetitive telephony service.

And on the subject of 911 vs. call your local police station - at least around here in the Baltimore burbs, they ask you to call the police station directly (phone numbers provided) if its not a 911 emergency.

Lucky you! We don't have that option here. See for yourself by visiting my local police department web-site, local fire department web-site or local ambulance service web-site.

In fact, the odds are a call to our local fire department or ambulance service at their listed contact numbers would go unanswered. I'm not even certain that our police department is manned 7 x 24 anymore.

[lcompton]

Good evening, Boondocs.

Good evening. Boondocs.

There charging you that much? Do you have Verizon wireless? If so you can get a dryloop bundle with the two as long as your cell plan is 450min or more a month. I pay 29.99 per month for my dsl + the cost of the cell service.

O.M.G.! You are totally awesome!

I've been using T-Mobile, but I just signed up with Verizon wireless on 26 January. I really wanted to get a Blackberry and Verizon had the cutest Blackberry Pearl 8130 in pastel pink. The Blackberry was free and they waived the USD35.00 activation fee so I was like, hey, why not?! And, it so happens that I signed up for the 450 minute/month plan.

I'm calling Verizon tomorrow about this. That would be totally awesome if I could get them to trim USD12.00 off of my monthly DSL bill.

FYI in case they give you a hard time about it. Here is the info directly from their site.
http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel ... d-and.html

Well, I'm now paying USD30.00/month for my DSL rather than USD41.99/month. The discount ended up being USD11.99/month. I'll take it!

Verizon didn't give me any trouble at all. But, I'm glad you sent me this link as background information. It was a good read and is consistent with the general market data suggesting people are migrating from landlines to wireless telephones en masse.

You saved me nearly USD144.00/annum, Boondocs. That's no joke!

I'd be honored to express my gratitude in a more substantive manor by sending you a lovely bottle of wine if you PM me a mailing address and a wine variety that you fancy.

[lcompton]

Good evening, robatino.

lcompton: Verizon has 3 DSL plans. The highest (7.1 Mbits) has a $5 difference between with and without POTS ($38 vs. $43/month). The lower ones (3 Mbits and 1 Mbit) have only a $2 difference ($28 vs. $30/month and $18 vs. $20/month, resp.).

http://www22.verizon.com/Residential/Hi ... /Plans.htm

These prices looked so appealing until I read the fine print:

Offers available to new Verizon High Speed Internet residential customers. Installation of new service and a one or two-year agreement required. Price Guarantee plans require a two-year agreement and include a $99 early termination fee. Price Guarantee applies to base internet rate and is void if changes are made to the service plan or Verizon discontinues DSL service to your location. Not valid with bundle offers. $79 early termination fee applies to one-year agreements. Rate may increase after 1-year term. One-time shipping and activation fee of $19.99 applies. Additional charges, taxes and terms apply. Offers end 2/21/09

Don't worry though, I did ask the Verizon representative about getting in on these prices. He very politely told me where to go -- and, it wasn't Disney World. The Turbo Plan looked interesting to me, but my line doesn't qualify for it.

Shame on you for getting my hopes up! I knew you meant well though.

[robatino]

I've had Verizon DSL in MA since 2001, and dry loop since 2005. Right now, I'm paying $30/month for 3 Mbits without POTS (with a 1-year contract). In fact, when I renewed 2 months ago, they gave me a discount for the first 3 months. Strange that they won't give you something similar - especially if you're not asking for the free modem or router.

[mberlant]

Prices and plans offered vary by market, not by provider. Apparently, Verizon enjoys less competition in Lisa's part of PA than in your part of MA.

[robatino]

Prices and plans offered vary by market, not by provider. Apparently, Verizon enjoys less competition in Lisa's part of PA than in your part of MA.

Yes, that must be it. I'm in the Boston area.

[lcompton]

robatino,

I've had Verizon DSL in MA since 2001, and dry loop since 2005. Right now, I'm paying $30/month for 3 Mbits without POTS (with a 1-year contract). In fact, when I renewed 2 months ago, they gave me a discount for the first 3 months. Strange that they won't give you something similar - especially if you're not asking for the free modem or router.

That is disappointing (for me, not you!) I'm guessing it has something to do with markets. Verizon may be more generous in your local market than in mine (Philadelphia) because they have to be.

It's okay though. I'm paying USD30.00/month now for the Power Plan DSL, which is 3Mbps downstream and 768kbps upstream. I'm happy.

If I ever abandon Verizon Wireless service, I'll see what I can do to persuade them not to raise my DSL price.

[hardlyw0rking]

I've had Verizon DSL in MA since 2001, and dry loop since 2005. Right now, I'm paying $30/month for 3 Mbits without POTS (with a 1-year contract). In fact, when I renewed 2 months ago, they gave me a discount for the first 3 months. Strange that they won't give you something similar - especially if you're not asking for the free modem or router.

When I asked Verizon to go dry loop and drop the residence line I was offered local dial tone for $12.00/mo. No voice mail, no caller ID, no frills, no long distance unless I buy a phone card, E911 included. I've had DSL roughly same dates and price and speed for $29.99 as robatino. Verizon offered a cellphone+DSL bundle but I was not interested and I forget what it was.

This move on Verizon's part means MJ loses all inbound calls and the associated revenue. I planned to go dry loop and MJ only. But MJ unreliability and lack of support made the $12.00 cost an easy decision. Since I never gave out the MJ number to anyone, there is also no transition headache on my part. I keep the number I had for years. Also now no one even knows I have MJ number. So word of mouth advertising for MJ is lost. Just a little reliability and a little support would have changed all that.

[Boondocs]

Good evening, Boondocs.

Good evening. Boondocs.
O.M.G.! You are totally awesome!

I've been using T-Mobile, but I just signed up with Verizon wireless on 26 January. I really wanted to get a Blackberry and Verizon had the cutest Blackberry Pearl 8130 in pastel pink. The Blackberry was free and they waived the USD35.00 activation fee so I was like, hey, why not?! And, it so happens that I signed up for the 450 minute/month plan.

I'm calling Verizon tomorrow about this. That would be totally awesome if I could get them to trim USD12.00 off of my monthly DSL bill.

FYI in case they give you a hard time about it. Here is the info directly from their site.
http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel ... d-and.html

Well, I'm now paying USD30.00/month for my DSL rather than USD41.99/month. The discount ended up being USD11.99/month. I'll take it!

Verizon didn't give me any trouble at all. But, I'm glad you sent me this link as background information. It was a good read and is consistent with the general market data suggesting people are migrating from landlines to wireless telephones en masse.

You saved me nearly USD144.00/annum, Boondocs. That's no joke!

I'd be honored to express my gratitude in a more substantive manor by sending you a lovely bottle of wine if you PM me a mailing address and a wine variety that you fancy.

Well thank you I'm glad that it worked out for you! I would love a bottle of wine but I would feel bad excepting a gift because I shared info I found by doing a little research. Thanks again for the offer and I'm glad that you are saving some money.

[Boondocs]

Lisa, not trying to hijack the thread but have you ever been on the wine trials in upstate NY? Great time and a lot of fun We went to Lake Cayuga two years ago and stayed at Buttonwood Farms They have little logcabins in the back overlooking the winery and the lake. Very very nice!

[Trebuin]

I'll stick with voip. My parents back in Ohio were forced to switch because their lan line went down during that big wind storm last year. The telephone company told them that it would cost my parents several hundred dollars to have it repaired, even though it was a city wide problem and not at my parent's house. It was basically something about the phone company no longer having any employees to service their system so they just let it go. I don't remember who services their area.

Anyhow, they're now running vonage because it's simple.

[lcompton]

Good evening, Boondocs.

Well thank you I'm glad that it worked out for you! I would love a bottle of wine but I would feel bad excepting a gift because I shared info I found by doing a little research. Thanks again for the offer and I'm glad that you are saving some money.

I'm sorry that you would feel badly accepting a more practical expression of my appreciation. However, I respect your decision.

From my perspective, it was less about research, which anyone can do, and more about the fact that the idea of a discount never even occurred to me. It was more about the idea you planted in my head so I could pursue a discount.

Anyway, if you change your mind, you know how to reach me. The offer stands.

[lcompton]

Boondocs,

Lisa, not trying to hijack the thread but have you ever been on the wine trials in upstate NY? Great time and a lot of fun We went to Lake Cayuga two years ago and stayed at Buttonwood Farms They have little logcabins in the back overlooking the winery and the lake. Very very nice!

I've not been to any wine tastings in New York State. In fact, it's been some time since I've been to a wine tasting at all. Years ago, when I was successful, I participated in wine tastings in Northern California and New Zealand -- the latter of which I postively loved and miss tremendously.

We have some wineries in the Commonwealth and I have visited a few, but it's not the same as the Napa Valley or New Zealand. As I'm sure you're aware, Pennsylvania is a problematic state when it comes to alcohol because the state government controls our choices. It's unfortunate, but repeated political efforts to get the liquor control board out of the business of selecting our wine and spirits for us have failed. I usually drive down to Liquor World on Naamans Road in Northern Delaware when I want access to a good international wine selection.

[mberlant]

Darn. I picked the wrong fruit. I had you pegged as a "Limey" instead of a "Kiwi".

[smalcom]

Prices and plans offered vary by market, not by provider. Apparently, Verizon enjoys less competition in Lisa's part of PA than in your part of MA.

I tried to dump my landline for a dry dsl loop and was told by Verizon that the option was not available in my area (Baltimore County, MD.) I dropped to message rate service (~$10/month) and keep my $14.99 dsl service. Before you ask, I have 1Mb service. I am 16,000 ft as the crow flies from the DSLAM, and my line can't sustain a reliable higher speed connection. I tried, and lost it every couple of hours. Better a rock solid 1.1 than a constant reboot 1.6.

[mberlant]

"As the crow flies" is the right analogy, because your wire distance to the CO does not travel in a straight line, just as the crow does not fly in a straight line.

When I lived in the US I had 768kbps SDSL because that was the fastest my 11000 wire feet could support. The most simultaneous VoIP conversations I had on that line was 6, and with no voice degradation.

[jcthewizard]

Anyway, if you change your mind, you know how to reach me. The offer stands.

Hi Lisa,

Sorry for butting into this thread, but I do not see a way to connect with you otherwise.

I’ve been reading some of your posts and find your thought process clear and focused. Perhaps you could save me some time by pointing me in the right direction of my quest.

Last year I negotiated with our wireless ISP to let them install a service tower on our property to provide service in our area. In exchange for the land and power I get 6 to 10 mbps up and down – so for me that is a life changer as we live on 40 acres out in the country – no cable out here.

With the new service I began looking into inexpensive VoIP and bumped into magic jack last December. I bought two thinking I could forward our home office number to one Magic Jack, and then ‘busy call forward’ the 1st Magic Jack to the 2nd Magic Jack number. Well, as you are probably aware, this service does not exist. I used the my.magicjack.com site to chat with someone-somewhere that did not have a clue what I was asking for. They continued to argue that the do provide ‘forwarding’ – you know what I mean.

What I am attempting to accomplish is to replace my current $150 a month qwest service by reducing it down to a single line (from 3) – no long distance – and no ‘hunting’ (busy call forward’.

I believe what I am looking for would have to be done on the Magic Jack side of the server – and it appears there is no one there to request that from.

So, in looking around at http://www.phoneservicesupport.com I found a couple of your posts where you spoke of setting up Skype as your integrated phone service utilizing your ‘wired’ type of phone.

I’ve just upgraded to DECT 6.0 2-line as our older Seimens 2.4 ghz system was overwhelmed with the power of the ISP radio tower – the interference was like having a microwave nest to your wireless 2.4 phone . . . The DECT 1.9 ghz works great!

So what I am looking for is a way to connect to Magic Jack, Skype, or something (not Vonage as I am wanting to keep costs at a minimum) and be able to have 2 lines of service, both with ‘busy call forwarding’, in addition to call forwarding.

Currently I am using a wired phone connected to my qwest land line to ‘forward’ our home office number to the 1st Magic Jack. I have the DECT phone system set to auto call out on line 2 (2nd Magic Jack #), that way I hopefully won’t miss to many incoming calls to line 1.

Oh, and I almost forgot, I also need to be able to make 3-way calls. Magic Jack only provides 3-way calling when BOTH calls originate from the outside. I need to be able to ‘flash’ and get a dial tone – usually to help handle customer support issues. While I can do this with the DECT system by ‘conferencing’ both lines together, that does limit incoming calls.

Any suggestions or ideas are greatly appreciated!
[/quote]

[mberlant]

What you desire is clear, reasonable, and well documented here in the forum as "not going to happen in our lifetime." As you will learn when you get to reading the previous postings here, MJ's place in the market is at the absolute bottom of the price vs. features curve. Call Forward Busy and true 3-way calling are two features that would cost MJ money to support, and therefore you will not see them for $1.67 per month.

[jcthewizard]

What you desire is clear, reasonable, and well documented here in the forum as "not going to happen in our lifetime." As you will learn when you get to reading the previous postings here, MJ's place in the market is at the absolute bottom of the price vs. features curve. Call Forward Busy and true 3-way calling are two features that would cost MJ money to support, and therefore you will not see them for $1.67 per month.

Thank you for your quick response.

Since it is not my place to suggest what will or will not support MJ's profitability, I leave that part alone. The idea did cause me to buy two accounts - not a big deal.

But, what suggustions do you have for my needs? Is it possible to do what I need with other services that you are aware of?

Your thoughtful help is appreciated.

[lcompton]

Good evening, jcthewizard.

Sorry for butting into this thread, but I do not see a way to connect with you otherwise.

No worries. You can always send me a private message, too.

I’ve been reading some of your posts and find your thought process clear and focused. Perhaps you could save me some time by pointing me in the right direction of my quest.

Thank you. I'll certainly do my best to help.

Last year I negotiated with our wireless ISP to let them install a service tower on our property to provide service in our area. In exchange for the land and power I get 6 to 10 mbps up and down – so for me that is a life changer as we live on 40 acres out in the country – no cable out here.

I'm certain that most would agree with how fortunate you are to have such an arrangement with a wireless provider. Lucky you! (No pun intended.)

With the new service I began looking into inexpensive VoIP and bumped into magic jack last December. I bought two thinking I could forward our home office number to one Magic Jack, and then ‘busy call forward’ the 1st Magic Jack to the 2nd Magic Jack number. Well, as you are probably aware, this service does not exist. I used the my.magicjack.com site to chat with someone-somewhere that did not have a clue what I was asking for. They continued to argue that the do provide ‘forwarding’ – you know what I mean.

It's probably counter-intuitive, but I wouldn't recommend expecting too much in the way of technical support from MagicJack technical support. While I have found their customer service to be friendly and helpful when dealing with account renewal and refund, I've had little success with their technical capability.

magicJack does have busy-call-forward, but the service is locked into busy-call-forward to magicJack voicemail only. There exists no option to busy-call-forward magicJack to a destination other than magicJack voicemail.

What I am attempting to accomplish is to replace my current $150 a month qwest service by reducing it down to a single line (from 3) – no long distance – and no ‘hunting’ (busy call forward’.

I believe what I am looking for would have to be done on the Magic Jack side of the server – and it appears there is no one there to request that from.

Right. magicJack is not likely to get into customized solutions for a particular customer at its current price point. On the other hand, these types of solutions represent revenue opportunities for magicJack if they can develop an organizational capability to provide these services to customers on a buy-up type of arrangement. Unfortunately, this is an internal company operations issue for magicJack and completely beyond the control of magicJack customers.

So, in looking around at http://www.phoneservicesupport.com I found a couple of your posts where you spoke of setting up Skype as your integrated phone service utilizing your ‘wired’ type of phone.

Correct, I am using a Hewlett Packard t5710 Thin Client, D-Link DPH-50U and Skype for my home telephone service. This setup has been in operation for about two months and functioning well for my needs. The system has even been tested during an unscheduled power outage we had not too long ago. Everything is on a 1.5 kilowatt UPS, which provides up to five hours of continuous operation of telephony during power outages.

I’ve just upgraded to DECT 6.0 2-line as our older Seimens 2.4 ghz system was overwhelmed with the power of the ISP radio tower – the interference was like having a microwave nest to your wireless 2.4 phone . . . The DECT 1.9 ghz works great!

I'm really envious of your bandwidth arrangement with the wireless carrier.

So what I am looking for is a way to connect to Magic Jack, Skype, or something (not Vonage as I am wanting to keep costs at a minimum) and be able to have 2 lines of service, both with ‘busy call forwarding’, in addition to call forwarding.

Currently I am using a wired phone connected to my qwest land line to ‘forward’ our home office number to the 1st Magic Jack. I have the DECT phone system set to auto call out on line 2 (2nd Magic Jack #), that way I hopefully won’t miss to many incoming calls to line 1.

Oh, and I almost forgot, I also need to be able to make 3-way calls. Magic Jack only provides 3-way calling when BOTH calls originate from the outside. I need to be able to ‘flash’ and get a dial tone – usually to help handle customer support issues. While I can do this with the DECT system by ‘conferencing’ both lines together, that does limit incoming calls.

Any suggestions or ideas are greatly appreciated!

Skype offers busy-call-forward, but it's only to Skype voicemail. However, Skype also offers call-forwarding if the call goes-unanswered for x seconds, where x is an integer representing the number of seconds you want Skype to wait before forwarding the call. With careful configuration, it would be possible to use Skype to perform call-forwarding in a manner that would provide desirable results for your needs. The trick would be the timing values used in forwarding calls.

Unfortunately, Skype does not offer three-party calling of any kind (inbound or outbound). From what I've seen thus far in my use of Skype and perusing the Skype web-site, there doesn't appear to be a buy-up option for three-party calling either. So, Skype won't meet your three-party calling needs. For three-party calling, you would need a two-line telephone and two telephone lines (yes, two Skype telephone lines would function) that could be conferenced on the telephone. Every two-line telephone I've ever seen can do this and I actually have an old Sony 900MHz two-line cordless telephone that has this capability.

It is possible to use Skype as one telephone line and magicJack as the second telephone line and conference the two of them together -- again, with a two-line-capable telephone. Using this technique, you could forward a second Skype line to the magicJack line giving you the ability to three-party conference both inbound and outbound calls on the telephone. As you have noted, this does consume both telephone lines for the three-party call leaving no telephone line available. Further, any outbound calls you make on your magicJack line would be call-capped at 120 minutes. It is the call caps that caused my departure from magicJack for home telephone service. Other than the call caps, magicJack met my home telephony needs satisfactorily.

The D-Link DPH-50U can accommodate an additional plain-old-telephone-service (POTS) line in addition to the P.C.-based Skype telephone service. In theory, you could connect a magicJack line to the POTS port on the DPH-50U. The DPH-50U can conference the two lines through a series of touch tone key codes you enter on your telephone keypad. However, this can be annoying to the party to which you are connected while attempting to bring in the second party on the additional line. The DPH-50U key code interface isn't all that wonderful either. I find it annoying and don't use the internal DPH-50U capabilities because of the interface. It's bad enough that I have to preface every call with 001 and add an asterisk (*) at the end of every number I dial. I'm used to it now, but I wouldn't miss it if I didn't have to do it. Here's an extract from the DPH-50U User's Guide on managing three-way calling:

3 way Conference Call Between VoIP and Regular Calls
While on a regular phone call you may receive a Skype™ call or while on a Skype™ call you may receive or make a regular call. The USB Gateway will indicate an incoming call with an audible tone and you can conference in the additional caller by pressing #2. For example: During your skype call and there comes an audible tone indicate that you have incoming PSTN call, so you can press #1 to switch to the PSTN to talk and then press #2 to make 3-way conference call

The advantage of this technique is that you would be able to get three-party conference calls using only one of the two cordless telephone lines because one cordless telephone line would be connected to two telephone lines (one POTS/magicJack and one Skype) on the back-end. In fact, if you had two such back-end setups, you would have four telephone lines on a two-line cordless telephone, which I must admit could be pretty spiffy. On the other hand, keeping track of the key codes required to access all of the features would not be any fun.

In short, there is no ideal low-cost solution available from what we have today. The best we can do is approximate the type of higher-cost service you desire using some combination of the lower-cost services available.

Others (meaning not the cyber bullies) may have some helpful input to what you want such as installing a PC-based PBX (such as Asterisk), but these solutions are more involved and will require a greater investment in hardware than a magicJack-only, Skype-only or magicJack-Skype-combined solution.

Good luck!

P.S. Nice view from the windows in your home. I'd love a view like that!

[jcthewizard]

No worries. You can always send me a private message, too.

Sorry - I don't know how to send a private message - followed your profile and did not see a way to do that.

Thank you for the extensive reply - I will print it our and explore your thoughts. Spending money on something else (like asterick) is not a problem - I just feel 'powerful' when I can take control of the communication companies money :~)

P.S. Nice view from the windows in your home. I'd love a view like that!

Yes, we are blessed. My passion is helping people get what they want in life too - another blessing.

Thanks again for your time - you are very considerate - and appreciated!

[lcompton]

Hi, again, jcthewizard.

No worries. You can always send me a private message, too.

Sorry - I don't know how to send a private message - followed your profile and did not see a way to do that.

I think all you need to do is click on the little PM button at the bottom of a message authored by the person you wish to PM.

I used to have a contact form on my web-site, but since my web-site was lost last New Year's Day and I haven't found the time (or inspiration) to work on a new web-site, that contact option is out.

Thank you for the extensive reply - I will print it our and explore your thoughts. Spending money on something else (like asterick) is not a problem - I just feel 'powerful' when I can take control of the communication companies money :~)

Ah, you like control. Hehe.

P.S. Nice view from the windows in your home. I'd love a view like that!

Yes, we are blessed. My passion is helping people get what they want in life too - another blessing.

Haha! I want to be a billionaire! No matter what you say, there is no way you can help me with that.

I have this very strange medical condition, you see. I was born to be a billionaire, but something went wrong somewhere along the way. I'm really a billionaire girl trapped in a poor girl's body. LOL

The good news is that I've figured out the exit from poverty. Eventually, if I don't succeed in life, I'll die trying. I take great solace in knowing that my circumstances ends -- one way or another.

Thanks again for your time - you are very considerate - and appreciated!

No worries. All the best!

[smalcom]

Hi, again, jcthewizard.

No worries. You can always send me a private message, too.

Sorry - I don't know how to send a private message - followed your profile and did not see a way to do that.

I think all you need to do is click on the little PM button at the bottom of a message authored by the person you wish to PM.

I used to have a contact form on my web-site, but since my web-site was lost last New Year's Day and I haven't found the time (or inspiration) to work on a new web-site, that contact option is out.

Thank you for the extensive reply - I will print it our and explore your thoughts. Spending money on something else (like asterick) is not a problem - I just feel 'powerful' when I can take control of the communication companies money :~)

Ah, you like control. Hehe.

P.S. Nice view from the windows in your home. I'd love a view like that!

Yes, we are blessed. My passion is helping people get what they want in life too - another blessing.

Haha! I want to be a billionaire! No matter what you say, there is no way you can help me with that.

I have this very strange medical condition, you see. I was born to be a billionaire, but something went wrong somewhere along the way. I'm really a billionaire girl trapped in a poor girl's body. LOL

The good news is that I've figured out the exit from poverty. Eventually, if I don't succeed in life, I'll die trying. I take great solace in knowing that my circumstances ends -- one way or another.

Thanks again for your time - you are very considerate - and appreciated!

No worries. All the best!

Not an expert in any sense of the word, and you seem to be knowledgeable in lots of phone tech, would ooma be a viable alternative?

[jcbsews]

Lucky you! We don't have that option here. See for yourself by visiting my local police department web-site, local fire department web-site or local ambulance service web-site.

In fact, the odds are a call to our local fire department or ambulance service at their listed contact numbers would go unanswered. I'm not even certain that our police department is manned 7 x 24 anymore.

I thought I'd pass along that I went (after looking at your links) to my own County Emergency Services page, and got similar info (they only put 911 on the webpage). However, I sent them an email to ask for the emergency service "regular" number, and they emailed it back to me. So maybe, they DO have a number you can use, you'd just have to call or write during non-emergency hours to get it...

And thanks for posting, it wouldn't have occured to me to look for a non-911 emergency number otherwise!

JC

[lcompton]

Good evening, JC.

I thought I'd pass along that I went (after looking at your links) to my own County Emergency Services page, and got similar info (they only put 911 on the webpage). However, I sent them an email to ask for the emergency service "regular" number, and they emailed it back to me. So maybe, they DO have a number you can use, you'd just have to call or write during non-emergency hours to get it...

That's an awesome suggestion. I'm going to try sending them an e-mail this evening and see what comes back. I'll let the group know the results.

And thanks for posting, it wouldn't have occured to me to look for a non-911 emergency number otherwise!

You're quite welcome. And, back at you for the awesome suggestion of contacting the emergency services folks to see if they have a non-911 telephone number alternative.

[mberlant]

All PSAPs have two POTS numbers, one for emergencies and one for non-emergencies. When you dial 911 from any landline or VoIP phone that does not belong to the ILEC in which the PSAP is located your telephone company (MJ, in this case) uses this POTS emergency number to connect your call.

Most dispatch centers publish at least the non-emergency phone number in the blue pages of the local ILEC telephone directory. You should be able to call that phone number and ask to know their emergency number. For example, the non-emergency phone number for U?????n Township Police is 692-5100, and they should be happy to share their emergency POTS number with you.

[lcompton]

Good afternoon, JC.

I thought I'd pass along that I went (after looking at your links) to my own County Emergency Services page, and got similar info (they only put 911 on the webpage). However, I sent them an email to ask for the emergency service "regular" number, and they emailed it back to me. So maybe, they DO have a number you can use, you'd just have to call or write during non-emergency hours to get it...

That's an awesome suggestion. I'm going to try sending them an e-mail this evening and see what comes back. I'll let the group know the results.

I received a response from the county emergency services folks providing a regular ten-digit telephone number to call instead of 911. The message went on to indicate that they do not receive location information through the ten-digit number so I would need to provide location information if I were to call to report an emergency situation.

This is great. It's just like the good old days and that's how I like it. At least I can program the ten-digit number into a speed dial location on my cordless telephones connected to Skype and not have to worry about being harassed if I dial them by mistake.

Again, I appreciate your sharing the idea. This was a good exercise.