If you pay by credit card issued outside of USA, beware!

[ennemm]

When trying to renew one of my Magicjacks Plus I got constantly AVS hence renewal was denied.

Tech Help was actually trying very hard to get the issue resolved for me but after more than an hour of trying to help, had to admit defeat because my VISA card was not issued in the States.

I called the VISA Center to see if anything has gone wrong with my card and they told me that they have received many calls for the same reason and in each case it was for MagicJack.

So, if you have a card issued or renewed outside of the States, you can't renew or buy added years to MJ.

Odd thing though, I can use the card at Amazon, Skype, eBay, etc. etc but not MJ

[Pilot]

My European VisaCard works OK.
My Canadian MCard and Visa was not good enough for MagicJack!

MJack is afraid that overseas users will somehow rip them off for $10 in international prepaid!

Anything / anyone from outside the USA is "a suspect" as far as MagicJack is concerned I guess..........................................?

[SteveHC]

The issue is not that MJ is afraid of non-US card holders "ripping them off." There's much more to it than that (generally issues related to legalities).

[cell14]

There's much more to it than that (generally issues related to legalities).

Not really. There can be some legalities, for example the VAT issue for cardholders with billing addresses in certain countries, but this does not apply to the type of service MJ provides.
I used a bunch of foreign issued cards and i still have one and the only problems I had so far was with web sites designed by idiots which were set for US address format only and for that reason simply did not work. Last time( a few months ago) I had to make a payment with that card on a site like that and I was lucky that they had a real customer service and the supervisor was able to take the payment manually.
As a matter of fact, most foreign credit cards provide LESS protection for the consumer than US issued, especially in the case of disputes about the quality of merchandise/service provided you are on your own with them.
In this case, IMO it is just the same old screwed up MJ.

[SteveHC]

There's much more to it than that (generally issues related to legalities).

Not really. There can be some legalities, for example the VAT issue for cardholders with billing addresses in certain countries, but this does not apply to the type of service MJ provides.
I used a bunch of foreign issued cards and i still have one and the only problems I had so far was with web sites designed by idiots which were set for US address format only and for that reason simply did not work. Last time( a few months ago) I had to make a payment with that card on a site like that and I was lucky that they had a real customer service and the supervisor was able to take the payment manually.
As a matter of fact, most foreign credit cards provide LESS protection for the consumer than US issued, especially in the case of disputes about the quality of merchandise/service provided you are on your own with them.
In this case, IMO it is just the same old screwed up MJ.

- Those were not the type of "legalities" that I was referring to.

[Pilot]

There's much more to it than that (generally issues related to legalities).

Not really. There can be some legalities, for example the VAT issue for cardholders with billing addresses in certain countries, but this does not apply to the type of service MJ provides.
I used a bunch of foreign issued cards and i still have one and the only problems I had so far was with web sites designed by idiots which were set for US address format only and for that reason simply did not work. Last time( a few months ago) I had to make a payment with that card on a site like that and I was lucky that they had a real customer service and the supervisor was able to take the payment manually.
As a matter of fact, most foreign credit cards provide LESS protection for the consumer than US issued, especially in the case of disputes about the quality of merchandise/service provided you are on your own with them.
In this case, IMO it is just the same old screwed up MJ.

- Those were not the type of "legalities" that I was referring to.

which legalities were you referring to

[SteveHC]

- As I recall:

Technically, at least, MagicJack can only be sold to residents of the U.S. and Canada (and RENEWED by same), and even though it is *technically* considered by the FCC to be a data service the company must be able to confidently trace all calls made on a MJ account to the account's actual owner - who can be held and in fact *is* held legally liable for its lawful use (at least as far as the Canadian and US governments are concerned).

Because of the combination of direct and indirect controls on MJ's purchasing and use (which are necessary especially given that the company doesn't use customer ID methods such as Social Security or driver's license numbers), the company has become pretty good at cutting down on the *illegal* use of its devices and service, and cutting down on the use of its devices and service by people who would otherwise have been able to use them in the engagement of illegal activities.

FYI, the company fully cooperates with law enforcement agencies in these regards and can even produce complete account AND call records - even call records (including originating IP addresses) made on MJ+ devices that are connected directly to routers (and which do not yield call logs visible within one's online account), and even calls made via the MJ apps... many criminals who THOUGHT they could get away with all kinds of illegal activities by using MJ devices rather than cell or landline phones have been caught and successfully prosecuted with the assistance of the company.

Another FYI - Some of you who have recently purchased relatively new Windows pc's may have noticed a new Microsoft warning that pops up when installing MJ on the new pc - specifically, the warning that Windows Firewall now comes installed automatically set to block the use of MJ on public networks and now MJ can only be used (via pc) on a public network only if you specifically request the OS to allow its firewall to be open for MJ use on public networks. Users should take this as a sign that Microsoft, credit card companies and card issuers, and the MJ company itself are doing all they can to cut down on fraud and other illegal activities in these regards (trust me, I know from whence I speak).

I'm not saying that these are absolutely and positively the ONLY reasons why some people may have difficulty with funding their MJ accounts via credit cards, just that they are probably the most important ones. So, for example, if you initially bought and registered your MJ account in the U.S. with a U.S. address and credit card, and then try to renew it from some country in South America with a South American credit card and/or address, don't expect a whole lot of success (indeed it would work only out of some really weird sheer luck). This is, of course, a very simplistic example and I'm sure that everybody's "problematic" situation in this regard is at least a little if not very different. AND, as we ALL know by now, don't *expect* MJ's "customer service" to be of any real help in such matters REGARDLESS of whether or not they tell you that you'll be receiving an email about it - the company makes its profit in part by providing as little customer support as it possibly can.

[cell14]

As I recall:

Technically, at least, MagicJack can only be sold to residents of the U.S. and Canada (and RENEWED by same), and even though it is *technically* considered by the FCC to be a data service the company must be able to confidently trace all calls made on a MJ account to the account's actual owner - who can be held and in fact *is* held legally liable for its lawful use (at least as far as the Canadian and US governments are concerned).

Because of the combination of direct and indirect controls on MJ's purchasing and use (which are necessary especially given that the company doesn't use customer ID methods such as Social Security or driver's license numbers), the company has become pretty good at cutting down on the *illegal* use of its devices and service, and cutting down on the use of its devices and service by people who would otherwise have been able to use them in the engagement of illegal activities.

FYI, the company fully cooperates with law enforcement agencies in these regards and can even produce complete account AND call records - even call records (including originating IP addresses) made on MJ+ devices that are connected directly to routers (and which do not yield call logs visible within one's online account), and even calls made via the MJ apps... many criminals who THOUGHT they could get away with all kinds of illegal activities by using MJ devices rather than cell or landline phones have been caught and successfully prosecuted with the assistance of the company.

Another FYI - Some of you who have recently purchased relatively new Windows pc's may have noticed a new Microsoft warning that pops up when installing MJ on the new pc - specifically, the warning that Windows Firewall now comes installed automatically set to block the use of MJ on public networks and now MJ can only be used (via pc) on a public network only if you specifically request the OS to allow its firewall to be open for MJ use on public networks. Users should take this as a sign that Microsoft, credit card companies and card issuers, and the MJ company itself are doing all they can to cut down on fraud and other illegal activities in these regards (trust me, I know from whence I speak).

I'm not saying that these are absolutely and positively the ONLY reasons why some people may have difficulty with funding their MJ accounts via credit cards, just that they are probably the most important ones. So, for example, if you initially bought and registered your MJ account in the U.S. with a U.S. address and credit card, and then try to renew it from some country in South America with a South American credit card and/or address, don't expect a whole lot of success (indeed it would work only out of some really weird sheer luck). This is, of course, a very simplistic example and I'm sure that everybody's "problematic" situation in this regard is at least a little if not very different. AND, as we ALL know by now, don't *expect* MJ's "customer service" to be of any real help in such matters REGARDLESS of whether or not they tell you that you'll be receiving an email about it - the company makes its profit in part by providing as little customer support as it possibly can.

This will not fly. I used to renew one of my MJs with a foreign CC without problems( although other people reported problems with buying international minutes for no reason)
There is a whole list of voip providers both domestic and foreign which rent US DID's and other services to anyone.With a partial exception of Google Voice nobody makes an issue out of it.There are countries which have some restrictions in regard who can have a DID but that's not the case in the US. There are many, and better, choices than MJ for both US residents and foreigners. MJ is shooting in it's own leg here. Fine with me.

[SteveHC]

This will not fly. I used to renew one of my MJs with a foreign CC without problems( although other people reported problems with buying international minutes for no reason)
There is a whole list of voip providers both domestic and foreign which rent US DID's and other services to anyone.With a partial exception of Google Voice nobody makes an issue out of it.There are countries which have some restrictions in regard who can have a DID but that's not the case in the US. There are many, and better, choices than MJ for both US residents and foreigners. MJ is shooting in it's own leg here. Fine with me.

What makes MJ different from other VOIP service providers is that MJ - through YMAX - is also, as far as federal and state governments are concerned, a telephone company. This makes all the difference in the world in these regards and subjects the company to more regulatory and legal issues than many other VOIP service providers are generally subjected to. Couple that with the flurry of illegal activities that some people have unfortunately used MJ for (both domestically and abroad), and you have the need to impose significant controls.

[cell14]

What makes MJ different from other VOIP service providers is that MJ - through YMAX - is also, as far as federal and state governments are concerned, a telephone company. This makes all the difference in the world in these regards and subjects the company to more regulatory and legal issues than many other VOIP service providers are generally subjected to.

I have serious doubts about the validity of the above.

Couple that with the flurry of illegal activities that some people have unfortunately used MJ for (both domestically and abroad), and you have the need to impose significant controls.

Regardless, imposing restriction on use of foreign credit cards for renewal does absolutely nothing toward "significant control".
If somebody wants to have "significant controls" than he would have to take measures like in Sweden where you can only have a DID if you have a valid address and either a Swedish SSN or a valid and active Swedish business registration.

[SteveHC]

I have serious doubts about the validity of the above

- LOL! You're certainly entitled to express whatever doubts you may have, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation (YMAX is the formal CLEC telco, not MJ).

As far as the rest of your post goes, it's certainly not my company and I don't work for it so I really don't care one way or the other as long as my MJ account continues to be dirt cheap and work as well as it currently does. But I do suspect that most of MJ's customers are glad that it doesn't collect more personal identifying information about them than it currently does.

[Pilot]

This will not fly. I used to renew one of my MJs with a foreign CC without problems( although other people reported problems with buying international minutes for no reason)
There is a whole list of voip providers both domestic and foreign which rent US DID's and other services to anyone.With a partial exception of Google Voice nobody makes an issue out of it.There are countries which have some restrictions in regard who can have a DID but that's not the case in the US. There are many, and better, choices than MJ for both US residents and foreigners. MJ is shooting in it's own leg here. Fine with me.

What makes MJ different from other VOIP service providers is that MJ - through YMAX - is also, as far as federal and state governments are concerned, a telephone company. This makes all the difference in the world in these regards and subjects the company to more regulatory and legal issues than many other VOIP service providers are generally subjected to. Couple that with the flurry of illegal activities that some people have unfortunately used MJ for (both domestically and abroad), and you have the need to impose significant controls.

Very interesting................, do you have a lot of examples of this ??

What is it that makes MJ so important to criminals?

I would think using a "pay as you go" cell phone with ZERO i.d. about owner/user would be the obvious choice for criminals (and some others).

[SteveHC]

Don't need to and won't waste my time doing so here - that is not the purpose of this board or forum. But MJ is much cheaper than cell phones are, even "pay as you go" cell phones. And most "American" pay-as-you-go cell phones won't work overseas (but most of the time an already-paid-for MJ device or app *will*).

[Pilot]

- As I recall:

Technically, at least, MagicJack can only be sold to residents of the U.S. and Canada (and RENEWED by same), and even though it is *technically* considered by the FCC to be a data service the company must be able to confidently trace all calls made on a MJ account to the account's actual owner - who can be held and in fact *is* held legally liable for its lawful use (at least as far as the Canadian and US governments are concerned).

Because of the combination of direct and indirect controls on MJ's purchasing and use (which are necessary especially given that the company doesn't use customer ID methods such as Social Security or driver's license numbers), the company has become pretty good at cutting down on the *illegal* use of its devices and service, and cutting down on the use of its devices and service by people who would otherwise have been able to use them in the engagement of illegal activities.

FYI, the company fully cooperates with law enforcement agencies in these regards and can even produce complete account AND call records - even call records (including originating IP addresses) made on MJ+ devices that are connected directly to routers (and which do not yield call logs visible within one's online account), and even calls made via the MJ apps... many criminals who THOUGHT they could get away with all kinds of illegal activities by using MJ devices rather than cell or landline phones have been caught and successfully prosecuted with the assistance of the company.

Another FYI - Some of you who have recently purchased relatively new Windows pc's may have noticed a new Microsoft warning that pops up when installing MJ on the new pc - specifically, the warning that Windows Firewall now comes installed automatically set to block the use of MJ on public networks and now MJ can only be used (via pc) on a public network only if you specifically request the OS to allow its firewall to be open for MJ use on public networks. Users should take this as a sign that Microsoft, credit card companies and card issuers, and the MJ company itself are doing all they can to cut down on fraud and other illegal activities in these regards (trust me, I know from whence I speak).

I'm not saying that these are absolutely and positively the ONLY reasons why some people may have difficulty with funding their MJ accounts via credit cards, just that they are probably the most important ones. So, for example, if you initially bought and registered your MJ account in the U.S. with a U.S. address and credit card, and then try to renew it from some country in South America with a South American credit card and/or address, don't expect a whole lot of success (indeed it would work only out of some really weird sheer luck). This is, of course, a very simplistic example and I'm sure that everybody's "problematic" situation in this regard is at least a little if not very different. AND, as we ALL know by now, don't *expect* MJ's "customer service" to be of any real help in such matters REGARDLESS of whether or not they tell you that you'll be receiving an email about it - the company makes its profit in part by providing as little customer support as it possibly can.

Where did you get all this "info" from?

From MJ or ..... ?

Sounds a bit like you somehow are connected with / work for MJ ...??

[Pilot]

Don't need to and won't waste my time doing so here - that is not the purpose of this board or forum. But MJ is much cheaper than cell phones are, even "pay as you go" cell phones. And most "American" pay-as-you-go cell phones won't work overseas (but most of the time an already-paid-for MJ device or app *will*).

Actually most/all of them (GSM) do work overseas.

[Gene45]

I don't pretend to know anything about this, but I recently tried to buy an e-book from Barnes and Noble. In setting up the account I could choose from any country in the world, but when it came down to buying the book, they cannot/will not sell to anyone outside the US.

But I can't know that I until I try to pay for the book.

Yet Amazon does and Kobo now owned in Japan have no issues.

[SteveHC]

Amazon and Kobo have the required Japanese business and financial arrangements and operations (obviously).