***New Mods T5730 a Dual-Core 64-bit CPU & PCIe G-card

[krzysiek841]

of course i have measured the resistor 4k7

[momo]

of course i have measured the resistor 4k7

That's my point that's why I said it's most likely OK, because
the socket works with the 2GB stick in there, separately, alone.

[momo]

T5735. No need to photograph it
Is this what the bios chip on yours looks like?

[T5735]

Yep that is exactly what it looks like. How cheaply can you buy the un-programmed chips for?

[momo]

Yep that is exactly what it looks like. How cheaply can you buy the un-programmed chips for?

In single quantity I've seen them for under $3
In 9000 quantity I've seen it for 25 cents each

Imagine how cheap they are in million quantity pricing, like when Apple orders chips.

[momo]

The 'A' revision of this part reached it's end-of-life.

A data sheet from 2009 says to use the 'C' rev part in new designs...

The MX25L4005A product family is not recommended for new designs. The MX25L4005C family is the recommended replacement. Please refer to MX25L4005C datasheet for full specifications and ordering information, or contact your local sales representative for additional support.

http://www.ezoflash.com/datasheets/spif ... L4005A.pdf

http://www.ezoflash.com/datasheets/spif ... L4005C.pdf

http://www.ezoflash.com/chip_database.p ... MX25L4005C

[momo]

This is just too freaky
I'm trying to find a socket like the one on T5735's board for the bios chip...
http://imgur.com/e92Akfy
...but just find adapters of SMD to DIP pin types with super large sockets on them

I've searched for...

8-pin SOP (200mil) socket

TSOP8 socket

SSOP8 SMD socket

209mil sop8 socket

....etc...etc...

and I just keep getting the socket with adapter board, or the higher pin count,
or huge sockets for burn-in or programming

It's freakin crazy ...

In case I need to remove the bios chip to program it, I wanted to have a
socket to put on the board so I don't need to keep unsoldering / re-soldering it

[krzysiek841]

i have searched for it too but i didn't found it ...

[momo]

i have searched for it too but i didn't found it ...

It's most likely a discontinued item.

I may need to order two of the adapters, and remove one socket for the T5730
or make some kind of plastic socket, I'm not sure yet.
But it's possible I may be able to program/read the chip keeping it on the board.
I'll need to make some tests before I order any adapter even for the programmer.

I won't need it, if the chip can be read/programmed in-circuit.
It depends on the surrounding parts connected to its pins, and if it changes the
signals and voltages when the programmer is attached.

If I make a quick test to read the chip, using wires to the programmer socket,
and it's OK...
then, to do repeated re-programming of it, easier.....

Something like this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOIC8-SOP8-Flas ... 339054a642
...can be used if repeated in-circuit programming is needed.

[T5735]

You know I just happened to think that I to have a eprom programmer. I built a custom fuel injection system for my truck using parts from various different makes and in order to change the fuel tables in the on board computer I had to reprogram the chip. This is the one that I have.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB5-0E-Willem- ... 3f31cf0b7f

[momo]

You know I just happened to think that I to have a eprom programmer. I built a custom fuel injection system for my truck using parts from various different makes and in order to change the fuel tables in the on board computer I had to reprogram the chip. This is the one that I have.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB5-0E-Willem- ... 3f31cf0b7f

According to the listing, it says it programs... SPI Flash Bios chips support added
MXIC
MX25L512,MX25L1005,MX25L2005,MX25L4005A,MX25L8005A,MX25L1605,MX25L3205
MX25L6405

Thing is, you'll still need to get an adapter to put the SOP8 chip into the DIP8 socket on the programmer

[momo]

If you do want to order an adapter, make sure it's 200 mil size, not the 150 mil
showing for cheaper pricing.

This chips DataSheet says it's 200 mil size

Like this adapters socket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOIC-SOP8-to-DI ... 3cddcdc280

[momo]

If you do want to order an adapter, make sure it's 200 mil size, not the 150 mil
showing for cheaper pricing.

This chips DataSheet says it's 200 mil size

Like this adapters socket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOIC-SOP8-to-DI ... 3cddcdc280

I also found something interesting from this eBay seller...

DIY Kit Capacitance ESR Inductance Resistor LC Meter Tester NPN PNP Mosfet M168

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-Kit-Capacit ... 3ce89dc7a5

[T5735]

I probably wont order anything at the moment and just wait and see if in fact you are able to reprogram the bios if that is in fact what is stopping it from using the full amount of ram. It still seems weird that puppy linux can use the entire amount with no problems but windows can't.

[momo]

I probably wont order anything at the moment and just wait and see if in fact you are able to reprogram the bios if that is in fact what is stopping it from using the full amount of ram. It still seems weird that puppy linux can use the entire amount with no problems but windows can't.

Yeah, don't get anything yet until I can compare the three bios files.

[momo]

SB600 specs
Page 1 -> http://i.imgur.com/p5jFSE7.jpg
Page 2 -> http://i.imgur.com/hdDvUz4.jpg
Page 3 -> http://i.imgur.com/bnP6pv7.jpg

Desktop system block diagram SB600 / RS690
http://i.imgur.com/JZC7sY4.jpg
It shows it supports two RAM Channels (two sockets)

RS690 basic specs shows it supports PCIe x16
http://i.imgur.com/cBDNBVz.jpg

I still have the full PDF spec sheets, but it seems AMD took them off line
If there's a place to upload them, I also have more dealing with this chipset,
like BIOS modification instructions. and other stuff from AMD

Some info from wiki (partly complete)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_690_chipset_series

[T5735]

SB600 specs
Page 1 -> http://i.imgur.com/p5jFSE7.jpg
Page 2 -> http://i.imgur.com/hdDvUz4.jpg
Page 3 -> http://i.imgur.com/bnP6pv7.jpg

Desktop system block diagram SB600 / RS690
http://i.imgur.com/JZC7sY4.jpg
It shows it supports two RAM Channels (two sockets)

RS690 basic specs shows it supports PCIe x16
http://i.imgur.com/cBDNBVz.jpg

I still have the full PDF spec sheets, but it seems AMD took them off line
If there's a place to upload them, I also have more dealing with this chipset,
like BIOS modification instructions. and other stuff from AMD

Some info from wiki (partly complete)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_690_chipset_series

Man you are like a machine when it comes to this stuff. I barely have enough time to mess around with it for half a hour in the afternoons. I have full confidence that you will figure out the memory problem and get it working.

[momo]

Man you are like a machine when it comes to this stuff. I barely have enough time to mess around with it for half a hour in the afternoons. I have full confidence that you will figure out the memory problem and get it working.

thanks, but I've been 'toying' with this RAM upgrade since two years ago,
and had these files since then.

krzysiek841 deserves credit for finding out about the resistors and caps,
and getting a socket to use, plus actually being the first, in our group,
to physically try this.

I'm also trying to see if other capacitors or resistors may be needed,
and if it's BIOS limits, or actually unknown hardware issues.

I've seen this > http://i.imgur.com/KItBI0C.jpg < info about the RAM modules
needing a 5.6pF capacitor between the CK0 and CK1 lines, and other caps on
VDDSPD / VRef / VDD Power to VSS (ground) lines with un-marked caps.
(Shown at the bottom of that image)

So if there are other capacitor traces on the board that aren't populated,
that could also be doing it, because at 400MHz speeds, it's critical to keep the
signal and power lines stable, and clean.

I'm not sure if these, or some, parts are on the modules already, or need to be added on the board.
But the fact it's working on Puppy Linux is interesting,
and depends if that OS isn't using Dual-channel mode, and is 32-bit or 64-bit.

Is puppy Linux 64-bit?

[T5735]

There are 64 bit versions of puppy linux but it just all depends on what iso you download.

[momo]

There are 64 bit versions of puppy linux but it just all depends on what iso you download.

Ahh, so it depends now, which one krzysiek841 tried that worked with the 2x 2GB sticks.

Do you know if there are different images, even with the 64-bit ones, that
support dual channel mode, and other 64-bit files that don't?

[T5735]

There are 64 bit versions of puppy linux but it just all depends on what iso you download.

Ahh, so it depends now, which one krzysiek841 tried that worked with the 2x 2GB sticks.

Do you know if there are different images, even with the 64-bit ones, that
support dual channel mode, and other 64-bit files that don't?

I really am unsure. I just played around with different disto's until I found one that would work with the on board video that the T5730 has. You can look at their site and see all of the different kinds that are available. http://puppylinux.org/main/Overview%20a ... tarted.htm

[momo]

There are 64 bit versions of puppy linux but it just all depends on what iso you download.

Ahh, so it depends now, which one krzysiek841 tried that worked with the 2x 2GB sticks.

Do you know if there are different images, even with the 64-bit ones, that
support dual channel mode, and other 64-bit files that don't?

I really am unsure. I just played around with different disto's until I found one that would work with the on board video that the T5730 has. You can look at their site and see all of the different kinds that are available. http://puppylinux.org/main/Overview%20a ... tarted.htm

Thanks
The only mentioned puppy Linux, as being 64-bit, is FatDog64 Linux ...
http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/

With the latest one being made Sept 14th 2014
Shown at the bottom of this page --> http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/iso/

I don't think krzysiek841 used this one, unless I'm mistaken.

[momo]

...

[krzysiek841]

i have downloaded this: slacko-5.7.0-PAE.iso
from
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-slacko-5.7/

[momo]

i have downloaded this: slacko-5.7.0-PAE.iso
from
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-slacko-5.7/

OK, so it works with that.
That means the both RAM sockets have NO faults

You said the 64-bit OS (win 8.1) was able to work with the 1GB and 2GB
of RAM in (total 3GB)

If you can't have it work with both 2GB sticks, it's may also be a driver
making the system reboot, or blue-screen

At this point, I can't be sure, because you never tried a 64-bit OS other than Windows

Have you ever tried booting in safe-mode with windows 8.1 and the 4GB RAM?
You should be able to do that to change your graphics driver..

It may also be the old X1250 32-bit graphics driver screwing up Win 8.1 (64-bit)
with the full 4 GB RAM in.
The AMD site says the older X1250 drivers had problems with Win 8.1

If all these other tests still don't work with 2x 2GB sticks in, then it's a BIOS limit.

[momo]

Hi krzysiek841

not hearing from you is most likely bad news or you just don't care to reply.

-----------
EDITED
I found this quote in a past reply of yours...

3GB works on 64 and 32 bit system

So, if 2x2GB sticks don't work in a 64-bit OS, maybe it actually is a BIOS limit.

Even that can't be certain,
because a different 64-bit OS other than Windows, wasn't tried.
-----------

With Win 8.1 you may need the proper drivers for the built-in ATI Radeon X1250 Graphics chipset

As of 8/14/2014 Last Updates to the X1250 for Win8.1 is at
http://www2.ati.com/drivers/beta/amd-ca ... -aug12.exe

and it works with Windows 8.1, as mentioned at the AMD site...
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-article ... -beta.aspx

They state that the older versions of the X1250 drivers didn't work with win8.1

[momo]

to show everyone,
Windows 8.1 Pro 64-Bit works with at least one(1) 2GB RAM module installed
......Mine Does...

[krzysiek841]

i have tried this fatdog
http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/iso/
it seems working normally and show normally 4GB RAM

[T5735]

Well we know it is something to do with Windows then I guess. Or it is something to do with the Bios specifically interacting with Windows.

[momo]

i have tried this fatdog
http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/iso/
it seems working normally and show normally 4GB RAM

Sort of what I've been saying on the last few pages of this thread.

You may also want to send a PM to the others from that modding site in Poland,
since they haven't replied to your last post there.

I also noticed they don't have the two capacitors, and also maybe the extra resistor
that you put on, from your other damaged T5735.
R473 - C247 and C243 ...their photo is not focused well enough, to see if R473 is there.
Plus, they may also have an older BIOS version,
shown in the photos at their last post about it
Their photo of the bios screen shows bios v1.02 not the latest of 2.02

http://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic2 ... l#12665702

Well we know it is something to do with Windows then I guess. Or it is something to do with the Bios specifically interacting with Windows.

I'm still thinking krzysiek841's older version of the X1250 graphics driver is the problem.

If some hardware or even a bios problem was the cause, it wouldn't take 10 seconds
to stop booting, or blue-screen. It would do it sooner.

This is why I wanted to see if Windows 8.1 (64-bit) could boot into safe-mode
If it can, that's where the old X1250 driver needs to be removed,
and the standard default graphics driver installed.

Then, when it boots with the standard AGP default driver, the newer X1250 driver is installed.

Windows is temperamental with drivers, and reboots without warning.
While it's possible some bios routine may be unique to it, I doubt it, until all the
proper updates to 8.1 are installed, and the correct drivers are in-place.

By the way, krzysiek841, where did the version of Win 8.1 64-bit OS come from?
Is it the full Pro version Microsoft lets you download as a demo?

Or is it the 'Home' version?
Because only the pro version has all the features to properly test this.

[krzysiek841]

it was a 8.1 Enterprise edition
safe boot didn't work too ...
shows the windows logo and about 5 sec restart

[momo]

it was a 8.1 Enterprise edition
will try safe mode today ...

If you have problems with 2x 2GB in the system, before it boots,
get Windows 8.1 fully working with just 1 of the 2GB sticks first,
it should fully boot with at least 1 module, as mine does.

Then try the both 2GB sticks in there.

But make sure all the updates to Win 8.1 are installed first.

If there's an actual fault dealing with both RAM channels, or BIOS routine,
we can't be sure until all the proper updates have been installed, as well as
the newest graphics driver for the X1250, shown in the first post on this page.

It may be an issue dealing with windows trying to use Dual-Channel mode
Maybe the Puppy Linux doesn't use Dual-Channel mode with 2 RAM sockets.

The 8.1 Enterprise edition is better than the Home edition, but ... well... We'll need to see.

[momo]

it was a 8.1 Enterprise edition
safe boot didn't work too ...
shows the windows logo and about 5 sec restart

I see you edited, rather than new post

So even with one stick it reboots?

If with one stick you can have 8.1 boot, or go into safe mode,
then update the graphics driver and try again.

If even one stick is giving problems, that's very strange.

Did you get the latest BIOS files, v2.02 ?

It wouldn't make sense why yours wouldn't work with just one stick and mine does.

Maybe the enterprise edition is the issue.

[T5735]

I was running Win 7 Enterprise on mine with the little 4200 rpm hard drive and 1 stick of 2gb ddr2 ram just fine.

[momo]

I was running Win 7 Enterprise on mine with the little 4200 rpm hard drive and 1 stick of 2gb ddr2 ram just fine.

OK, that's good to know.

In that case it would show either a driver issue, or still a hardware issue on his.

he's trying win 8.1 maybe a strange difference with enterprise edition,
but, still good to know about Win 7 enterprise working.

[krzysiek841]

i wroted some posts earlier that with 1 stick (or 3GB RAM) all systems runs ok ...
tried to install ati drivers (stock drivers was a standard windows driver)
and it didn't work either (with 4GB RAM)

[T5735]

Well good news maybe soon you can try it with Windows 9 for free.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2688652/ ... wners.html

[momo]

i wroted some posts earlier that with 1 stick all systems runs ok ...
tried to install ati drivers (stock drivers was a standard windows driver)
and it didn't work either (with 2 sticks)

Yeah, T5735 just mentioned in a PM his Win 8.1 64-bit enterprise edition also worked with one stick

This is strange.

I'm thinking maybe you need to setup all drivers (newest X1250) while using one stick
Get all updates to 8.1 then reboot with one stick, to make sure all works,
then try the second 2GB.
If it still won't work, there may be a BIOS issue with Dual-Channel mode.

Don't trash the installation on that Drive, because it will be needed to troubleshoot.

[momo]

Well good news maybe soon you can try it with Windows 9 for free.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2688652/ ... wners.html

Ha ha.. It's about time Microsoft gave us something free.

Maybe just to Indonesia?

[momo]

In T5735's PM to me...

Yes it was 64 bit. I also ran it on 32 bit before. I even took the hard drive from a 5740 I was messing around with that had regular win 8 not 8.1 on it and plugged it in and it ran fine and it was 64 bit. It had already done all of the windows updates and was running off the stock video driver that it found for the 5730. This was all with one 2gb stick or ddr2 though.

krzysiek841
It's possible the stock graphics driver had an issue under Dual-Channel mode
for our ThinClient using the both sockets.

This is why it's best to at least also install the latest X1250 driver from AMD
that I linked to earlier.

Then save this full installation, even if the both sockets still don't boot.
It will help me troubleshoot the BIOS issue, if one exists.

Take out one stick, and go into Win 8.1 again, and look in the Event Log
It may have logged the fault it saw that makes it not boot with the two sticks.

Usually, everything that gives a problem is logged in the Event log.
(I hope )

[krzysiek841]

tried to install ati drivers (stock drivers was a standard windows driver)
and it didn't work either (with 4GB RAM)
i looked in the event log seems no problem or event log not updated with the second RAM

[momo]

I need to find out what the differences are, between 64-bit Linux and Windows
handling of Dual-Channel RAM mode.

[momo]

tried to install ati drivers (stock drivers was a standard windows driver)
and it didn't work either (with 4GB RAM)
i looked in the event log seems no problem or event log not updated with the second RAM

Crap, ... this makes it harder, but STILL do-able.

Thanks for trying all this.
Hold on to this 8.1 installation if you can. We'll need it to test further.
If you need the drive try making a backup of it to store the image.

If it's on a Western Digital hard drive ... They offer a FREE Image backup utility.
It may even work if you don't use a WD drive as the main system drive,
as long as ANY WD drive is connected, even the storage drive for the image.

I use it, it's very good.
They even just updated it with a new release as of April 2014
I'll be downloading this update..!

http://support.wdc.com/product/download ... p?swid=119

[momo]

...

[momo]

OK, ... I registered on a different Linux discussion site, because the 1st one hasn't replied to my email about their confirmation codes not working properly. I tried a second time, with the same results.

The registration was instant, on this second different site, but it seems there's a waiting period to be allowed to have your posts viewable.

These Linux sites are very strange..!

I've sent you a PM, showing you the message I've posted to them, and can only wait until they allow my message to show on their forum.

I don't know how long that will take, but you've gotten this far, and I have no control over their administration process, so don't give up hope.
At least your T5735 is still working, with both 32 AND 64-bit OS's ...even if just with a maximum of 3GB on Windows 8.1 using both sockets.

You've done very well so far, and have proven the second socket can be added
The other modding site didn't even get any 64-bit OS to boot with both sockets used.

I'm waiting to verify if a BIOS issue (or limit) is the cause, or if Linux 64-bit doesn't really use Dual-Channel the same way Windows 64-bit OS does, and that may be why Linux 64-bit OS seems to work with using both 2Gb sticks.

When the message on that new Linux site is allowed to be posted, we'll see what they say regarding the answer.

I hope you're not 'disgusted' with me. (I'm not, of you)
I've done all I can, and you've done all you can too.
It's only a matter of finding out if the BIOS is the last step needed to modify,
and I need to hear from that Linux forum to confirm -
how Linux handles Dual-Channel RAM, to be sure of that.

[momo]

I'd like to explain something, to everyone, especially recent members, and others who may ask later, or who've asked me in past posts or PM's, to give them advice, or info for modifications with the ThinClient.

I like doing it, and like helping you create a better system from what you already have.
I have no problem using my time for your benefit, with no reward to me.

But, if I ask you to test something for me, or ask you to take a photo, or to measure a part, or make a backup, or test an OS on your not-yet modified or recently modified system, I don't do it to waste your time, or sound important, or to be a 'dick'.

It's because I don't have the hardware with the modification you may have just made, in front of me to test it personally.

Plus, if you've asked me to do something I'm not familiar with, like modify a BIOS. You really can't expect me to simply say ...

"..oh yeah, just press..." -- or -- "..enter whatever.."

And simply hope I'm right, but have it turn out to damage your system, or totally 'brick' it, from a wrong BIOS programming modification.
That's what I'm trying to avoid, by researching all I need to know, first.

Also, you can't expect me to instantly learn about it, without getting all the information and facts regarding it, FIRST, before I start something as complex as that.

That's why I ask so many questions, or seem so 'chatty' in PM's or on this thread. Or maybe even seem annoying to you at times, by making jokes, or a funny post, to keep things 'light' and fun to continue.

You can't expect me to start something that complex, that I'm not fully familiar with, without being absolutely sure it's the only other option and direction to go.

Besides not being a BIOS savvy programmer, and only mostly having a speciality in hardware, I like getting all the info I can about something like that, before I take-on that commitment.

I'd like to see you get an actual BIOS programmer to do it for you, if you think I'm nothing more than just an annoying dick-head.

Really now, ..do any of you think I owe you anything?
Do you think I'm here to give my time, so I should also accept your abuse, or insults, by not having my PM's or posts answered, or even viewed?

I can tell when someone's 'tone' has changed, from the one before.
We all can get a feeling of that, when we've been on these forums awhile.

I do realize you all also have a life away from modding anything.
but...SO DO I ... So don't rush the process. It's a hobby, not a JOB.

Isn't this all, ... supposed to be FUN?
...And not a freakin' slavery job, for ME, or for you?

If you get so intense with the timing of how things are going for you with a modification, that's not to your liking, or time-frame...don't make me the villain.
And don't dare to attempt to 'kill the messenger' if you don't hear what you want to hear.

Many, if not all modifications are basically 'new' to the system being changed because the manufacturer usually omits them from the circuitry, and may even limit the BIOS to stop them from being added.

Before I start to modify a BIOS, I want to be absolutely sure the BIOS is the cause of the non-working hardware modification.

So, I may ask you to make a test, ...measure a voltage, or part value, or try a different OS, and to even suggest you backup that new OS Image if you can, so YOU don't need to re-do that part of YOUR work.

I may even re-ask a question if I don't instantly remember your previous answer.
It's NOT meant to annoy you, or waste your time.

Hey...people... I don't want to make a long novel-sized post here, but rather,... to let you know I'm not going to keep going thru this crap if all I get is disrespect for my efforts.
I really don't mind doing this stuff, but if you can't be fun to work with, go somewhere else.

I understand you may feel the same, even about me so be sure you want to modify something, and be willing to see it thru, before you ask someone to help you do it...on ANY site..!

-- MoMo --

[momo]

For whatever it's worth, ...
That Linux forum has posted my question regarding -
how Linux handles Dual-Channel mode, compared to Windows -
...on their Puppy Linux forum....
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.ph ... post507862
...we shall see if someone answers it.

By the way,
... this post is meant for no one in particular, rather than the last 2 members working on this.

It seems those two have 'moved-on' after apparently getting 'annoyed' with me.

It's strange .. I thought it was going quite well, ...but... I guess they didn't




People are weird on the internet ... HUH !?!

[krzysiek841]

hello
will be good that they answear your question.
last time was much other things to do for me but i think will have more time to mod on the tk ...



T5735 could you please wright the full descrition of your gt tc
sn, mn and is it NG816AA or other ...

[momo]

hello
will be good that they answear your question.
last time was much other things to do for me but i think will have more time to mod on the tk ...



T5735 could you please wright the full descrition of your gt tc
sn, mn and is it NG816AA or other ...

you're actually back
I truly thought you were gone forever
T5735 said he has moved on from his T5730/35
and is focused on his new GT7725

I'm starting to see replies to my post on the Linux site.
We shall see where it goes.

I asked T5735 once what model of GT7725 it was, and he confirmed it was the NG816AA
(It may even be posted, earlier in this thread)

His BIOS would be the one I was going to compare to ours, because it uses
the same DDR2 memory and also the same 'Super I/O Chip#' as the T5730/35

[momo]

OK
The registration problem was corrected, at that first Linux Forum I was having
problems with.

I posted the question there too, ...
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 125#802125

So, being it's a more advanced forum dealing with technical issues of Linux,
there's more of a chance someone will know the specific answer to the question.

Now, I can only sit, and wait.