Running a full copy of XP on your thin client? *Read This*

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:08 pm

Read on...your flash memory will thank you

A little Background
As many of you know, a thin client is simply a small form factor, low power consumption PC. With that said, they can run any operating system a regular PC can.

Windows XP Embedded (XPe) is a modular version of XP which is optimized for thin clients and flash memory drives. Windows XP (pro or home) is optimized for running on a hard drive.

The problem
Flash memory has a limited amount of writes and throwing a regular copy of XP on it will reduce its lifespan unless you do some tweaks.

The Solution

EWF
The first thing you want to do is install the Enhanced Write Filter (EWF) which comes standard on Windows XPe.

Here's a link with details. I'll go into more detail later, but wanted to at least get the awareness started.

http://www.aspireoneuser.com/forum/view ... =80#p32293

Other Tweaks
Check out the link below for other tweaks you should perform
http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=37047&p=1

My Results
I've been running my t5710 (512mb RAM, 1GB flash) with a nlited version of XP pro for a while now and its very stable. With a full copy of XP, I don't have to worry about a MJ update breaking something because I'm missing a component like XPe often does. NOTE: Unless you really want to do some research and work, I wouldn't suggest a 1gb drive for regular XP. Get at least a 2gb to make your life easier.

I also have a t5720 (1gb RAM, 2GB Flash) that I run a nlited HP OEM version of XP Pro. After installing the tweaks above, it was a night and day difference.

ret27m · Post by **ret27m** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:48 pm

I dont have a usb dvd drive how do I get XP on my MJ? I do have a 2gb and a 4gb thumb/usb drive, I also have an external usb hard drive, I have a ligit copy XP Pro. Thanks...Jim

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:53 pm

I have a USB CDROM, so I used that, but you can do it with what you currently have.

Read this article for instructions

http://www.eeeguides.com/2007/11/instal ... thumb.html

Keep in mind that you need a large enough internal flash drive to handle XP. I would suggest a minimum of a Transcend 2GB flash module. I managed to do it on a 1gb, but it wasn't easy and I had to cut a lot out.

ret27m · Post by **ret27m** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:59 pm

stroths

I just upgraded to 2gbF 1gbR, I wanna run XP Pro BAD, BTW is it normal for my T5710 to show " 00 " in the bios for ram? Its running fine with the new upgrades.

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:08 pm

ret27m,

The 5710 doesn't necessarily like 1GB of ram. I read in the thread below that it depends on what motherboard you have in your 5710.

http://www.phoneservicesupport.com/t571 ... t3278.html

I would say that if it works and XPe boots to show you have that much ram I wouldn't worry about the bios reading that. HP probably did not program your BIOS with 1gb ram in mind.

You might also download a copy of memtest86 and make sure everything is good on your RAM to be on the safe side.

ret27m · Post by **ret27m** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:25 pm

Just did the mem test and it passed with flying colors, also windows shows 1gb, my MJ runs WAY faster since I put in the 1gb stick.

I have the TM8600, I was told that Mushkin 1gb sticks work in the T5710 w/TM8600 and a few other brands work but I guess the T5710 is pretty picky. I was just a bit suprised to see "00" in the bios.

I took the 1gb plunge after reading the thread you just listed.

HolmanGT · Post by **HolmanGT** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:13 am

ret27m,

On the memory display issue in the Bios, I have just learned to ignore it so I can't say if it works with some mother boards or not. But if Stroths says it does, who are we as mere mortals to debate the maestro. Besides once booted to windows everything there reports it and uses it correctly.

But I would make sure you have the latest bios Rev. installed. It is a simple from windows install and does not wipe out any or your OS configuration settings.

PS - I have noticed that there are some 5710 that have a manufactured date of June (or close to that) 2005 which overlaps some of the T5700 Mfg dates, these early T5710(s) may be the offenders. What is the Mfg date on yours just out of curiosity.

Also on what memory will work, it is my observation that PNY "Ultima" PC2700 SODIMMS will work in the T5700, T5710 and T5720. They are hard to find at a low price but you can rest assured that if you buy one "it will work". Caveat; I have never used anything larger than 512 in a T5700 so I can't speak to that issue but a 512 PC2700 PNY SODIMM will work in a T5700, 10 or 20.

gilfres · Post by **gilfres** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:13 pm

I'm trying to install a legal full copy of xp professional in a hp t5710 with 512 mb ram and a 4gb flash dom.

Because I don't have a usb cd-rom, I follow the instruction from this website
http://www.eeeguides.com/2007/11/instal ... thumb.html

to create a usb installation usb stick. I put the stick in the thin client and is start loading. I got 2 option, if i choose the GUI option I got corruct hall. If I start the text option I got the following error: bootinfo.inf could not be loaded, error code 14.

How you guys had been installed the full version of xp profession in the HP t5710 using a usb flash stick?

I would appreciate your response.

HolmanGT · Post by **HolmanGT** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:03 pm

gilfres wrote:I'm trying to install a legal full copy of xp professional in a hp t5710 with 512 mb ram and a 4gb flash dom.

Because I don't have a usb cd-rom, I follow the instruction from this website
http://www.eeeguides.com/2007/11/instal ... thumb.html

to create a usb installation usb stick. I put the stick in the thin client and is start loading. I got 2 option, if i choose the GUI option I got corruct hall. If I start the text option I got the following error: bootinfo.inf could not be loaded, error code 14.

How you guys had been installed the full version of xp profession in the HP t5710 using a usb flash stick?

I would appreciate your response.

gilfres,

The only person I know on this forum that is running XP full is "stroths". You might want to pm him and get him to come up on this thread and give you a hand.

Also maybe contact "VaHam", between him and "Stroths" I think they can make a Thin client sit up, rollover and occasionally play dead.

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:06 pm

About a year ago, I bought an external USB enclosure for a laptop hard drive. I use this for all my installs because its portable and runs off the USB power.

You might consider buying one off ebay or somewhere cheap. Any external cdrom will work. You can even get an enclosure for a regular 5.25 bay cd/dvd drive.

They also make adapters that plug into the back of a hard drive or a CD/DVD drive. I bought one for about $15 from Fry's a while back and it has a laptop connector, SATA and IDE port so you can plug a variety of drives into it. On the other end is a USB cable so you can make about any drive portable.

I've never tried to install XP off a USB stick, so I can't really help there.

HolmanGT · Post by **HolmanGT** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:12 pm

"I've never tried to install XP off a USB stick, so I can't really help there."

Stoths, my hero by his own admission just went down in flames. Now who the heck am I to look up to.

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:35 am

HolmanGT wrote:"I've never tried to install XP off a USB stick, so I can't really help there."

Stoths, my hero by his own admission just went down in flames. Now who the heck am I to look up to.

Fine...I don't want to let Holman down now do I

Here are some good links that should be easy to follow. I skimmed through multiple sites and these seemed the most straight forward.

This one is pretty straight forward if you want to do it all yourself.
http://www.liliputing.com/2008/04/insta ... e-usb.html

Here is a guy who made a GUI installer to setup your USB drive.
http://www.msfn.org/board/install-USB-W ... 20444.html

HolmanGT · Post by **HolmanGT** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:37 am

Stroths,

That "Holman" guy sure hates disappointment doesn't he.

I'll bet his wife thinks he is a real pain in the arse, but I seem to remember him telling me that was one of the reason his wife left him - he just never could take "we'll see" or "No" for an answer. But that is definitely not a topic for this forum, even if the Admin does let us get away with quit a bit of off topic conversations.

Besides I knew if I put you on the spot Mr. Stroths you would come up with something.

VaHam · Post by **VaHam** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Never tried playing with full up versions here so I'll have to stick to the "playing dead" part here

gilfres · Post by **gilfres** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:16 pm

Thank Stroths

I don't know if the usb size has to do anything, but looking the gui version I found out that PEtoUSB work only up to 2gb usb stick.

The gui version allow to create the usb installation with stick bigger than 2gb, I will try this version to see if this work.

Gilberto

HolmanGT · Post by **HolmanGT** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:40 pm

gilfres wrote:Thank Stroths

I don't know if the usb size has to do anything, but looking the gui version I found out that PEtoUSB work only up to 2gb usb stick.

The gui version allow to create the usb installation with stick bigger than 2gb, I will try this version to see if this work.

Gilberto

You might also check that the stick is formated FAT32, I believe the biggest file a FAT system can handle is 2GB. I noticed this when a friend was doing an Acronis backup to a FAT system and Acronis would break his image into 2GB chunks.

gilfres · Post by **gilfres** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:22 pm

I got the full xp professional installed in the Hp t5710. Now I have install the EFW and the other tweaks.

Thank you for the help. I used the gui version to create the usb flash stick installation.

HolmanGT · Post by **HolmanGT** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:30 pm

gilfres wrote:I got the full xp professional installed in the Hp t5710. Now I have install the EFW and the other tweaks.

Thank you for the help. I used the gui version to create the usb flash stick installation.

gilfres,

Persistence pays off, if it doesn't kill you first.

Glad you got over the major hurtle.

Salute !!!

mcrump001 · Post by **mcrump001** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:11 pm

Does anyone have an nlite config file for slimming down xp pro that works with magicjack that they would be willing to post?

gilfres · Post by **gilfres** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:42 pm

I installed the FBWF in my thin client running xp professional, but I saw that a reduction in my flash drive in about 700 mb. When I disable FBWF I got the I got back the 700 mb.

Does any one why is happen?
Does any one know if this happen also using EWF?

mcrump001
Look for this link about slimming down xp.
http://www.bold-fortune.com/forums/inde ... wtopic=229

If you donate to this guy, you can download the batch files to slim xp.

curiousgeorge · Post by **curiousgeorge** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:48 am

Hello all, just wondering if anyone has tried windows flp on the thin client? wonder how well it runs on these type of systems.

ps.This forum has boomed since I last visited,good work!,peace out.

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:20 am

gilfres wrote:I installed the FBWF in my thin client running xp professional, but I saw that a reduction in my flash drive in about 700 mb. When I disable FBWF I got the I got back the 700 mb.

Does any one why is happen?
Does any one know if this happen also using EWF?

I haven't seen anything like that with EWF.

curiousgeorge wrote:Hello all, just wondering if anyone has tried windows flp on the thin client? wonder how well it runs on these type of systems.

ps.This forum has boomed since I last visited,good work!,peace out.

Haven't tried it, but I see no reason it wouldn't work. A thin client is just a small form factor PC.

acex008 · Post by **acex008** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:39 am

What about booting windows off an external USB HDD and essentially eliminating the flash?

What I would like to do is upgrade the RAM in an HP T5710 to 1gb as mentioned, run XP Pro booted from my external USB HDD, and install a 5.1 PCI sound card in an HP T5710. Possible?

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:16 pm

acex008 wrote:What about booting windows off an external USB HDD and essentially eliminating the flash?

What I would like to do is upgrade the RAM in an HP T5710 to 1gb as mentioned, run XP Pro booted from my external USB HDD, and install a 5.1 PCI sound card in an HP T5710. Possible?

I don't see why not as a thin client is just a small form factor PC. I know that people have run XP off a USB flash drive, so a hard drive wouldn't be any different.

What I would suggest though, is you get a 44 pin cable like described in my upgrade thread and hook a laptop drive to it. You'll get much better performance from that compared to a drive on the USB interface. You would need to run the IDE cable outside of the box and mount the drive somewhere. I looked into this once and it wouldn't be that hard. Just cut a slot in the side of the case so the IDE cable can come out. Drill 4 holes in the case to match where the screw holes are on the bottom of the hard drive. Screw the drive down, hook up the cable and you are set.

As for the sound card, you would need to buy the PCI expansion bay to add a PCI device on unless you go with a USB version of the sound card. If you do go with the expansion bay, you could probably fit the hard drive in it as it has some room even with a card in it.

acex008 · Post by **acex008** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:01 pm

thanks for the feedback on this. I think I'm going to try and implement this.

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:42 pm

Keep us posted and post some pics of your beast when its finished. Don't worry about implementing EWF with a hard drive install as its not needed.

acex008 · Post by **acex008** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:11 pm

Now I'm thinking of running an 8GB CF card instead of a laptop drive with XP Pro. Not to get too far off topic but is there a laptop in car adaptor power brick that will work for this thin client? Thanks!

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:37 pm

acex008 wrote:Now I'm thinking of running an 8GB CF card instead of a laptop drive with XP Pro. Not to get too far off topic but is there a laptop in car adaptor power brick that will work for this thin client? Thanks!

Building a carpc? I build one a while back, but not with one of these thin clients. Here's some power options for you.

http://tinyurl.com/2w3epgn

acex008 · Post by **acex008** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:42 pm

Yup, CarPC... Would this power it? ebay listing
I'm comparing the cost/performance of using a thin client or a full blown mini-ITX build...

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:15 am

acex008 wrote:Yup, CarPC... Would this power it? ebay listing
I'm comparing the cost/performance of using a thin client or a full blown mini-ITX build...

That one puts out too much power. The A/C powered one is 12Vdc/3.33A regulated output. You would have to match that with your adapter.

If you can afford a mini ITX build, I would go with that for a carpc over one of these. The CPU and graphics performance on these isn't high enough to do some of the video decoding you would want to do with a carpc. Look for a low power dual core solution.

josuecebs · Post by **josuecebs** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:24 pm

Hello all!

I've been lurking around for months and finally decided to jump on the Thin Client bandwagon.

Anyway, I bought myself a new T5710 off ebay, upgraded the Flash to 4GB, and the RAM to 1GB and sucessfully installed a full (not slimmed or nlited) copy of Windows XP SP3 using a USB flash drive (Asus EEE PC tutorial).

Everything works perfect except for the integrated audio. At first windows could not find the drivers and once I was connected to the internet and let windows search for drivers online it found them but the audio device (in Device Manager) reads "Cannot start device". I've searched for T5710 audio drivers on hp.com/support and everywhere else but have found nothing...

Has anyone encountered this, or am I the only person running a full copy of XP on my MagicJack Thin Client?

Thanks!!!

PS - This problem has not affected my ability to use the MagicJack (with a regular phone) but I'm real picky and don't like having things I can't fully use...

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:54 am

This is slightly off topic, but not much as the answer to my question will determine if I have to go to a full featured XP or not.

If I buy a WiFi product that comes with a CD of drivers that will work on XP, will they also work with XPe? The product I am interested in buying is a USB WiFi receiver with an SMA antenna connection. I want to put an external antenna on the roof. I dont want to use an internal card because the "expansion" slot costs more than the WiFi card!!!

VaHam · Post by **VaHam** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:00 pm

jimisbell wrote:This is slightly off topic, but not much as the answer to my question will determine if I have to go to a full featured XP or not.

If I buy a WiFi product that comes with a CD of drivers that will work on XP, will they also work with XPe? The product I am interested in buying is a USB WiFi receiver with an SMA antenna connection. I want to put an external antenna on the roof. I dont want to use an internal card because the "expansion" slot costs more than the WiFi card!!!

I have only tried two different USB type WiFi adapters on XPe but yes they both worked fine.

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Sun May 03, 2009 6:04 pm

Well, back on subject, What is the minimum flash memory to run a full XP on the T5700?

I just got one off ebay and it has 256/256 so wont run XP....but the software I want to run, some OBDII software, needs 500 mb AND wont initialize properly in XPe when I try to run it on a 1 gb USB flash drive.

I will also be running MJ on this machine installed in my car.

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:05 pm

jimisbell wrote:Well, back on subject, What is the minimum flash memory to run a full XP on the T5700?

I just got one off ebay and it has 256/256 so wont run XP....but the software I want to run, some OBDII software, needs 500 mb AND wont initialize properly in XPe when I try to run it on a 1 gb USB flash drive.

I will also be running MJ on this machine installed in my car.

I got a copy running on a 1gb flash and it still had most of the functionality of XP Pro. However, I wouldn't suggest installing on anything under 2gb to give yourself some wiggle room. If you aren't using nlite then go with 4gb or more.

In your case, you could get away with 2gb with a nlited version of XP, but I would suggest 4gb or more to accommodate that 500mb OBDII software.

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:36 pm

Can a T5700 support 2 gb flash? Who sells them?

I am having compatibility problems on my T5710 with 512 memory...not flash...upgrade The seller is working with me on it because he guaranteed it. But I dont want to get into another hassle with upgrading the T5700 to 2 gb flash.

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Mon May 04, 2009 6:27 pm

jimisbell wrote:Can a T5700 support 2 gb flash? Who sells them?

I am having compatibility problems on my T5710 with 512 memory...not flash...upgrade The seller is working with me on it because he guaranteed it. But I dont want to get into another hassle with upgrading the T5700 to 2 gb flash.

The system sees it as a hard drive and a t5700 will take much larger than 2gb.

I will note that a problem occurs when running larger than 2gb with the copy of XPe that HP provides. It throws out licensing issues thinking you have different hardware than it was designed for. A full copy of XP won't have that issue.

As for where to buy it, look at the link in my signature.

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Wed May 06, 2009 11:25 am

I ordered the $2.86 44 pin adapter from China and I am now scratching around in my junk box for 2 gb laptop hard drive I bought a few years ago when I was hacking an "Eyeopener".

My problems with the 512 gb memory went away when the vendor sent me a replacement that worked just fine.

prberg · Post by **prberg** » Wed May 06, 2009 5:50 pm

Hi all, thanks for the great info. It's great to have experts to help us figure out how to make the best of our computers.

Can someone check my work here and make sure I'm on the right track?

I run MJ on an old laptop. I am going to replace the hard drive with a CF card and adapter. I am going to use nlite to create a small version of windows XP Home. So then I need to install EWF? I'm not quite sure how that works.. I will try to read the page that you linked to again. So the EWF will keep Windows from writing to my CF card? It will just write temp files, etc. to RAM? If I need to write to the CF card I just turn off EWF? Is it hard to install EWF?

Thanks so much for your help,
Peter

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:11 pm

prberg wrote:Hi all, thanks for the great info. It's great to have experts to help us figure out how to make the best of our computers.

Can someone check my work here and make sure I'm on the right track?

I run MJ on an old laptop. I am going to replace the hard drive with a CF card and adapter. I am going to use nlite to create a small version of windows XP Home. So then I need to install EWF? I'm not quite sure how that works.. I will try to read the page that you linked to again. So the EWF will keep Windows from writing to my CF card? It will just write temp files, etc. to RAM? If I need to write to the CF card I just turn off EWF? Is it hard to install EWF?

Thanks so much for your help,
Peter

You are correct and on the right track. Using the EWF link in my first post, I would suggest the EWFTool on that page. Just make sure you read the readme file.

I have never tried it on XP Home (only pro here), but I don't see why it won't work just the same.

EWF can be disabled as well.

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Wed May 06, 2009 10:42 pm

What is nlite ??????

prberg · Post by **prberg** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:40 am

I just started to use the program but nlite can take your exsisting windows cd and make a new install cd. The new cd will have a more condensed 'lite' version of windows. You can select what programs, drivers, services are installed. So if you are installing on a memory card or small hard drive (or if you just want a more compact and lean copy of windows) you can keep your windows install to a much smaller size.

Seems to be a really cool program so far.

-Peter

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:13 am

where do you get it? Will it run under Linux?

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:52 pm

I rummaged around in my parts box and found a 10gb laptop HD. It has 43 pins and then a space and 4 pins apparently for jumpers?. Is this what is called a 44 pin format? One pin is missing at the center on one side, I guess as a key.

I hope this will work on the TC as it is essentially free.

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:22 pm

I checked clearances for the 10gb drive and it fits easily inside the T5700. It would not fit in a T5710 because of more heat sinks. The T5700, or at least the one I have that is labeled "Engineering Sample" has very small heat sinks compared to the 5710.

Now I wonder if there will be enough cooling without a fan and a real HD inside the case. Any ideas?

I have ordered the 44 pin adapter and already have a cable with the right connectors on either end. The adapter to the HD has a 5V input on it, any idea where I should get the 5volts

The HD is an IBM Telstar drive.

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Sat May 09, 2009 7:50 am

jimisbell wrote:I checked clearances for the 10gb drive and it fits easily inside the T5700. It would not fit in a T5710 because of more heat sinks. The T5700, or at least the one I have that is labeled "Engineering Sample" has very small heat sinks compared to the 5710.

Now I wonder if there will be enough cooling without a fan and a real HD inside the case. Any ideas?

I have ordered the 44 pin adapter and already have a cable with the right connectors on either end. The adapter to the HD has a 5V input on it, any idea where I should get the 5volts

The HD is an IBM Telstar drive.

For any voltage, you would have to solder to a point on the mobo. I actually soldered a fan on one of my thin clients that was running a quad PCI network card that got too hot. I had to use a multimeter to measure voltage on different solder points while it was on until I found one I liked.

If you get a regular 2.5" laptop hard drive, it will not need any additional voltage. You can probably find a cheap 2.5" used on ebay or craigs list if you want to go that route.

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:36 am

I thought this was a "regular" 2.5" drive. Its for a IBM laptop. Is IBM some sort of non standard?

stroths · Post by **stroths** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:41 am

That is odd. Maybe its non-standard or has some adapter on it that uses a separate power connector. Here is a diagram of a standard 44 pin connection. You will notice the extra 4 pins (compared to a 40 pin PATA drive) are for power.

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/s ... umpers.htm

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:54 am

stroths wrote:That is odd. Maybe its non-standard or has some adapter on it that uses a separate power connector. Here is a diagram of a standard 44 pin connection. You will notice the extra 4 pins (compared to a 40 pin PATA drive) are for power.

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/s ... umpers.htm

My adapter has pin 43 of the drive side connected to the negative side of a PokHom connector (black wire) and not connected thru to the same connector on the cable side. And the positive side (red wire) is connected to 42 on the cable side, that pin is connected through from drive side to cable side. The PokHom is a standard drive power connector. It looks like the 5volts was applied through this connector. This is a 44pin to 44 pin adapter. (CF to IDE ???)

jimisbell · Post by **jimisbell** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:08 pm

But, now that I look at all the components I realize that what I really need is a CF to CF ribbon cable. My HD, an IBM Travelstar Model DJSA-210 10gb drive has a male connection that is exactly the same as the CF connector on the T5700 mother board. So I am assuming that a 7" ribbon cable with a female connector on each end will put the 10gig drive in operation.

BUT...I have searched EBay and can find none for sale. Does anyone have a source for this cable????

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