READ THIS WARNING!!!!!!!

[newschool007]

Not the product you think it is...
Calls are no free or just 19.99 a year.

Kiefer: Hello, how may I help you?

Tervell Turner: I was told that the calls on magicjack are infact not unlimited

Kiefer: Can you please be more specific Tervell?

Tervell Turner: if magicjack feels you call volume is too high then they reserve the right to charge you

Kiefer: I see.

Kiefer: I would suggest you to purchase an International Prepaid Minutes to your account at my.magicjack.com Tervell for you to be able to make calls again.

Tervell Turner: why would I do that?

Kiefer: For you to be able to make calls again.

Tervell Turner: I purchased an UNLIMITED plan for 39.95 so is it unlimited or not?

Kiefer: Thank you for your patience. I will transfer you to a higher level of support. Please hold while I transfer you.

Tervell Turner: ok

Please wait while I transfer the chat to the best suited site operator.

You are now chatting with 'Myrene'

Myrene: Hi Tervell.

Tervell Turner: I just found out from KIEFER that magicjack is not unlimited as advertised in your commercials and on your website. why is that?

Myrene: I must say magicjack has free calls Tervell.

Tervell Turner: you site and commercials state unlimited calls

Myrene: No, we can say FREE calls to US, Canada, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands.

Tervell Turner: at no time does your site or commercial state that you will be charged for usage other than 20 dollars a year

Myrene: No.

Tervell Turner: no what?

Myrene: No, you will not be charged aside from $19.95 per year

Tervell Turner: provide I dont make to many calls?

Myrene: Just limit your calls if possible Tervell

Tervell Turner: to what?

Tervell Turner: there is no number stated on your site

Myrene: No specific numbers, just limit your call if possible

Tervell Turner: how are people to know how many calls they can make

Myrene: I do not know

Myrene: If possible please limit yoru calls

Tervell Turner: I just got an email from my brother and the magicjack I bought for my mothers house 7months ago was turned off

Tervell Turner: if you dont know how am i supposed to know

Myrene: Have you received a voice recording that you have reached the volume of calls?

Myrene: That is why i am saying if possible limit your calls

Tervell Turner: I guessed they did but thats not the issue no one said there was any VOLUME

Tervell Turner: free is free

Tervell Turner: where is the volume listed at

Myrene: I am asking you, Have you received a voice recording that you have reached the volume of calls?

Tervell Turner: I said I bought it for my mothers house my magicjack has not reached any limit but I dont want to come home to find out it has

Tervell Turner: no I have to call my cable company to get the cable phone back cause it is unlimited

Myrene: Okay.

Myrene: We will not say UNLIMITED.. We must say FREE calls only

Tervell Turner: I got that but what is the limit

Myrene: I do not know what is the limit.. We haven't advise by the higher department.

Tervell Turner: ok so at this time I am going to cancel my service with you and thank god i fount this out now I almost ordered 10 more of this crap for other members of my family

Myrene: I see

Myrene: I understand Tervell.

Myrene: Do you have any other concerns?

Tervell Turner: Oh I am far from done with this...by the time I get done the public WILL know this is a scam

Tervell Turner: i need a rma

Myrene: Are you still on a trial period?

Tervell Turner: Yes I am

Tervell Turner: I just bought mine

Myrene: Alright.. You can return it and have a full refund.

Myrene: Please click the link below

Myrene: http://my.magicjack.com/returns.html

Tervell Turner: this crap says it cant process my order return. whats going on

Myrene: Credit Card 4155 **** **** 1351 , is this correct?

Tervell Turner: yes i put in the right information and it founf my account

Tervell Turner: yes

Myrene: Have you processed the RMA before?

Tervell Turner: for my magic jack?

Tervell Turner: no

Myrene: No, for your five year plan

Tervell Turner: oh the 5yr plan that is really only 4yrs? yes i did

Myrene: Have you saved the RMA form on your email?

Tervell Turner: no

Tervell Turner: didnt know i had to

Myrene: Alright

Tervell Turner: im sorry i didnt get any email for my RMA

Tervell Turner: I just checked my email

Myrene: Please print this and include your sales order number and the exact date when you purchased the device...

Myrene: RMA Product Requested (Jacks) Processed (Jacks) RMA Type Old RMA RMA Date

Myrene: 338467 (0) (0) [R]MA Order N 11/05/2008

Myrene: Order Number: DT01175293

Myrene: Order Date: 10/05/2008

Tervell Turner: so just print this and send it with the magicjack

Myrene: Yes Tervell.

Tervell Turner: well thanks for nothing and I will be contacting the BBB to inform them that this product is not what it claims to be

Myrene: Alright

[Darkman90808]

Tervell... can you elaborate on your call usage as a reference point to compare my usage against?

I seem to remember a member on the forum who was using his MJ with an autodialer to make telemarketing calls and never had a problem with TOS. Of course, that was earlier this year when there were only around 3,000 members.

[az2008]

Of course, that was earlier this year when there were only around 3,000 members.

Yes, it seems like enforcement of the limit just began 2-3 weeks ago. Makes me wonder what caused it. With the credit markets drying up, and families looking to cut expenses, MJ might be getting a surge of customers and (at the same time) capital may be drying up for investments/upgrades of their network.

I thought it was interesting how the support person said MJ only says "free calls" not "unlimited." I haven't scoured the MJ site. But, that seems to be true. Interesting that they're making that distinction. I think they know that an unqualified "free" is intended to be interpreted as "unlimited."

So, this quibbling over semantics (and having conversations about "try to limit your calls" without any specific guidelines) is going to make MJ look bad.

Personally I don't have a problem with MJ imposing a limit. I think the people complaining about being knocked off got a lot of value prior to being knocked off (less than a penny per minute). But, I agree that MJ looks bad the way they're handling it. There's no warning. No way to monitor your own usage. No offering to "top off" and get more time (unless you happen to reach a support person who suggests trying to buy international minutes, but again no clear guideline concerning how much a person should pay, or what they're getting).

Mark

[Matt9876]

I've had several months of good service but now for the past two weeks incoming calls are always choppy sounding.

and now shutdown enforcement limit on calls. WTF!


Does anyone have a guess as to what the shutdown limits are ??

[Darkman90808]

I realize now my reply was a little ambiguous, but I meant there were about 3,000 users on the forum. Hard to know how many units have actually been sold or how many are in use. Difficult to imagine that the excessive usage by a small percentage would impact their network.

I suppose anything's possible, but I don't see the MJ as a serious solution for business, so other than a few chatty long-distance lovers or family members, how much talk time could there be on a single line?

BTW, does anyone have any idea how many MJ's are in use at present?

[az2008]

Difficult to imagine that the excessive usage by a small percentage would impact their network.

Well, they must be doing it for a business purpose. I can't imagine they're just knocking people off for the fun of it.

So, if it's for a business purpose, and it started 2-3 weeks ago, it makes me wonder what caused this change.

Regarding how many MJs are in use. I think that will be hard to ascertain. MJ is in its second year now. Which means the important question is their renewal rate. And, whether MJ is really terminating subscriptions who don't renew.

Personally, it seems well within the range of possibilities that MJ wouldn't cancel accounts of users who stopped using MJ voluntarily (either at the end of their subscription, or earlier due to problems). I could see MJ leaving those active (since nobody's using them anyway) so MJ can count it toward the number of "users" (for PR purposes).

That wouldn't be much different than their sleazy "one more day left" (every day) trial offer.

Mark

[taflocks]

1.5 million in use i think a few hours a night might not hurt but for the few people that are abusers with 6 hours a day might trigger a problem. i would buy 7 of them and use one per day if i had a steady girl with a flappy jaw. you would still be saving a bundle.

[snafu2]

It's all about controlling costs by reducing "Termination Fees". Fewer calls equal fewer fees.

This can be achieved by lowering call quality, and if that isn't enough, restrict call volume.

I hope this isn't the case with MJ, but it sure looks like it.

c/p
Existing intercarrier compensation rules may be categorized as follows: access charge rules, which govern the payments that interexchange carriers (“IXCs”) and CMRS carriers make to LECs to originate and terminate long-distance calls; and reciprocal compensation
rules, which govern the compensation between telecommunications carriers for the transport and termination of local traffic.

[gooney]

Not the product you think it is...
Myrene: Credit Card 4155 **** **** 1351 , is this correct?

Tervell Turner: yes
(

Did she/he typed out your credit card number? Did she/he know who you are? The chat system is not private is all i can say.

[taflocks]

this product dose what it is supposed to do,those of you that are having problems must have a lousy or mis configured computer. i have never had any "real" problems with the m/j.

[AlaninKY]

I use my Jacks for hours and hours each day and no problems so far as it has saved me a bundle on business and pleasure calls.

[az2008]

I use my Jacks for hours and hours each day and no problems so far as it has saved me a bundle on business and pleasure calls.

If you really use it hours and hours each day, you should expect to be terminated for excessive usage. That seems to have begun just in the past 3-4 weeks. Users can't make outgoing calls, and are told to call a phone number where (if they ever reach anyone) they're told they must purchase international minutes to make outgoing domestic calls at .01 per minute. (Not a bad deal, except the termination limit isn't published anywhere.).

So, I'm just saying you should be prepared.

Mark

[AlaninKY]

I use my Jacks for hours and hours each day and no problems so far as it has saved me a bundle on business and pleasure calls.

If you really use it hours and hours each day, you should expect to be terminated for excessive usage. That seems to have begun just in the past 3-4 weeks. Users can't make outgoing calls, and are told to call a phone number where (if they ever reach anyone) they're told they must purchase international minutes to make outgoing domestic calls at .01 per minute. (Not a bad deal, except the termination limit isn't published anywhere.).

So, I'm just saying you should be prepared.

Mark

Hopefully having the calls spread out over 4 different magicJacks is keeping me under the limit. Interesting we don't even know what the limit even is...

[BuffaloChuck]

Alain, I'd disagree with the "should be terminated for hours a day" usage since there is no stated limit on usage.

"Telling us upfront" is the good business practice I'd like any company to do.

But there's something else that I'm questioning.

"What kind of monitoring do they do? What kind CAN they do? And since their business practices are cloaked, hidden or worse, how do we know?

I'd be happy if they'd find out when people were flying planes into buildings, getting ready to shoot up schools, getting their Florida brothers who are State gov's to rip-off Teacher Retirement Funds buying up Enron stock on Friday when it collapses on Monday.

But exactly what IS it that they're monitoring? Calling distances? Frequency of calls? Length of calls? All of the above? Some?

Is this really the BCS of Telephony?!!

[AlaninKY]

Hi BuffaloChuck,
I agree with you and it was actually
az2008 wrote the statement ""should be terminated for hours a day"

[az2008]

Hi BuffaloChuck,
I agree with you and it was actually
az2008 wrote the statement ""should be terminated for hours a day"

Geez, you guys. I said "should expect to be." I was just reporting what MJ was doing.

I agree with "BuffaloChuck" that the limits should be published. But, the ToS says MJ can terminate for "excessive use."

Mark

[BuffaloChuck]

Yeah, yeah, I shoulda read more carefully, Alain! LOL - leave it to a smart guy like AZ to point out yet another of my many errors!

"Stand in line, stand in line - no cutting in line - he's got enough mistakes for everyone..." LOL

I'm not sure what 'excessive' would mean, and I have a feeling this would be debatable in a class-action lawsuit. "Normal use" for vehicles depends on geography. A farmer's truck dealer knows the farmer's 'normal use' is different than a city-dweller's, and class-action lawsuits have successfully allowed farmers' recoupment for 'normal use' damages while city truck dealers wouldn't have to pay for those warranty items.

So, customer knowledge and dealer understandings has been a key in class actions.

A customer's normal usage of phone services by Bell & AT&T accepted some businesses used the phone all the time. None of those employees ever were 'cut off' for being on the phone. That was normal, and the vendor (phone service) accepted that.

Just because a vendor refuses to ask specific questions OR make specific guidelines, I'd think "class action" would be most detrimental to that vendor's cause.

But, let's go further... how is MJ limited and by whom? This goes back to another question - what are they monitoring? Who's monitoring them? Why?

This bothers me. The incredibly sloppy programming I've seen from MJ makes me agree with the "I'm amazed it works at all!" camp. Now I wonder - is all this bad programming a convenient cloaking device?

I'm still not certain why MJ didn't get a GOOD programmer (or doesn't do it now) and make this good product into an excellent one? It's only the software that's keeping it from being excellent. Easily changed software. We've seen some good workarounds here, but those could be successfully replaced with good original programming.

[az2008]

I'm not sure what 'excessive' would mean, and I have a feeling this would be debatable in a class-action lawsuit.

On the one hand, I agree that MJ would reduce the number of really angry customers (who feel motivated to file BBB complaints, and write "rip off" reports) if it stated clearly what the usage limits are.

But, talk of class-action lawsuits isn't realistic. The ToS says MJ can terminate for excessive use. And, it says MJ is the sole "decider" of such terms. It would boil down to 1) you were supposed to read the ToS. 2) The ToS says that if you don't agree to any term, you may not use MJ. 3) If you didn't agree to the undefined "excessive use," it was your responsibility to get it defined. Or, return MJ in the 30-day window.

Now, there were people who contacted dead chat when all the terminations occurred, asking what the limit is. Some were told there is no limit. That could be actionable. (But, others were told "just try to keep your calls short.").

But, the real thing is, the people who were terminated would tell you that they got far more than $20 or $40 use out of it. The amount of time they used came out to be something like 1/10th of a penny per minute. I can't imagine a jury being sympathetic to a telemarketer (extreme example) who made 200 calls per day, saving about $200 a month using a $1.70-per-month service that was cut short after 6 months.

It also seems like MJ's stopped terminating people. There was a big flare-up a month or two ago. And then we've heard nothing.

The incredibly sloppy programming I've seen from MJ makes me agree with the "I'm amazed it works at all!" camp. Now I wonder - is all this bad programming a convenient cloaking device?

It's been theorized that the way the softphone opens the USB flash drive for write every 3 seconds could be a way to exhaust the flash drive's lifespan, forcing users to have to buy a new MJ in a year or two (instead of using the same device for 5 years).

Some people may not realize it, but the same area of a flash drive can only be written to a certain number of times. A special filesystem was designed for flash drives to ensure that writes are spread across the drive, not reusing blocks until all blocks have the same number of writes. That's a way to extend their lifespan.

The way MJ is opening the drive for writes every 3 seconds, it could be a way to make sure the MJ flash drive doesn't have an indefinite lifespan (since it doesn't receive much writing anyway. Just the address book, etc.).

Mark

[BuffaloChuck]

AZ, thanks for that last bit. I've never considered that, and I've passed it on. I mean, the computer industry is FULL of examples of planned-obsolescence - "so why not one more?!!"

Fascinating. THanks also for the tips on terminating users. As I wondered on another thread - I wonder who's monitoring? Why? What are they monitoring? And who is Dan/MJ answering to when call-limits have occurred 'reasonable' to them. There's got to be pressure somewhere. And when will that be relieved?

It's a fascinating product... I am exploring the "run without dongle As Service" capabilities, and will run ProcMon to see what issues occur.

Boy, if I was going to write a dead-by-X-date, I'd have used a more predictable method. Not X number of flashes. But that's an interesting theory. Thanks... more than a few coffees will be served with that one!

[az2008]

if I was going to write a dead-by-X-date, I'd have used a more predictable method. Not X number of flash [writes].

You could be right. Maybe the constant open/close churn is just poor programming, not a conspiracy. You're right that it would have been easier (and more predictable) to just disable it through software.

For example, if you've gotten your money's worth (20,000 minutes or 20 months?), the proxy which the softphone maintains a connection to could just send a "86 it" message to the softphone. The softphone could display RC=4 messages. Abort abruptly. Not respond to input (hang). Just random behavior to cause the observer to believe without a doubt that something big went wrong.

And then tech support could suggest "Clamidia: Would please be always using a surge protector?" (Where do these support people get their screen names, anyway?).

I've had that theory about the Ooma service. It's based on a one-time expensive hardware purchase. After that, it's free. I don't believe that model can be sustainable (without an endless influx of new customers). There has to be a catch, like they end-of-life your hardware after some amount of time. The hardware acts as a proxy for pre-paid minutes(?).

Mark

[BuffaloChuck]

Mark, "Clamidia" - I swear - if I'd had a mouthful of Mtn Dew, I'd be cussin' you out, laughing all the while I wiped down the screen, keyboard, wall, etc. Clamidia. jiminy... I wish you'd post a warning about writing funny posts! "Do not read with full mouth" or something.

[davrow]

But exactly what IS it that they're monitoring? Calling distances? Frequency of calls? Length of calls? All of the above? Some?

Their TOS does state that they monitor who you are calling so they can target their marketing to the types of businesses you dial most frequently. Among other things...

[kumar]

Mark, "Clamidia" - I swear - if I'd had a mouthful of Mtn Dew, I'd be cussin' you out, laughing all the while I wiped down the screen, keyboard, wall, etc. Clamidia. jiminy... I wish you'd post a warning about writing funny posts! "Do not read with full mouth" or something.

I literally LOLed
=] Kumar

[BuffaloChuck]

Kumar, it's several days after this and I'm STILL cleaning my blasted desktop because of AZ. I really hate him sometimes.

[BuffaloChuck]

DavRow, it's kind of spooky that they're "monitoring us" for BUSINESS purposes?!! Huh?!!

For what reason is that? To sell frequently called phone numbers to ?? and make more money? How? Why?

If MJ is depending on a pyramid scheme for profits, wow - that's spooky. The whole "monitoring" issue to be EASILY clarified - "length of time" would be an EASY 3-word insertion for clarification.

But the Spook Factor is getting a lot larger than smaller.

[az2008]

For what reason is that? To sell frequently called phone numbers to ?? and make more money? How? Why?

The initial reasoning was to sell targeted advertising through the softphone's ad window.

After a year, it doesn't seem like that's panned out. The only ads have been MJ's self-service ads. If it doesn't pan out, I suspect a big change in service. Eliminate the monitoring clause of the ToS. Increase prices due to the ad-based revenue never materializing. Focus on ATA-based services in addition to computer-based softphone. (No more "jack").

If you're suggesting they're using the call history for other purposes, like to sell your number to related parties, I haven't received any tele-marketing calls in 6 months.

I don't see any other way the info could be used. It wouldn't be useful for demographics without a lot of information about you (age, sex, race, education level, marital status, income level, etc.).

Mark

[AlaninKY]

My theory is with the economy tanking magicJack has decided to hold off on the soft phone ads from other companies. Plus magicJack is trying to build a bigger base of customers for when the time is better to try to get ads.

[Fukbin]

If they do it to me, I will have the charges reversed by AMEX. It costs $120 in CA to file a small claims suit; bring it on. They need the publicity.

And I say "SHAME ON CNBC" for endorsing them w/o doing their research!!! For the love of money!

[cdwaldron]

Shoo, go back under your rock!

[norml jack]

I was watching a program that I happened to be recording when I fell asleep. The next day, when I checked my recording there was a magic jack infomercial on my tape. I just reviewed that tape, and they absolutely stated "unlimited calls" again and again.

This is clearly and overtly deceptive.

CLASS, are you ready for ACTION?

[az2008]

I was watching a program that I happened to be recording when I fell asleep. The next day, when I checked my recording there was a magic jack infomercial on my tape. I just reviewed that tape, and they absolutely stated "unlimited calls" again and again.

I wish you could get that transferred to electronic format and uploaded to YouTube. I would love to be able to refer to it.

Mark

[robatino]

If they had a tiny little asterisk and a footnote in microscopic text, I could see them being able to claim it's not deceptive (even though most people wouldn't have the picture resolution to be able to read it). Otherwise, no.

[robatino]

I did a search for

magicjack infomercial

and found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsR3b2F9sUA

It appears truncated at the end but they did say "talk as long as you want" (note they say "you", not "we") and I didn't see any footnotes though there could have been something after it was cut off.

[az2008]

It appears truncated at the end but they did say "talk as long as you want" (note they say "you", not "we") and I didn't see any footnotes though there could have been something after it was cut off.

Thanks. I've seen that before. I linked to it in the MJ wiki as an example of questionable business practices that often come up in discussions:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/MagicJack/ ... _Practices

I've always been able to rationalize that as "talk as long as you want" isn't the same as "unlimited." It doesn't say how *often* you can call. And, I think most reasonable, average people wouldn't expect that to mean dozens of 40-hour phone calls per month. (I'm willing to say the advertisement is speaking to the expectations of average viewers.).

But, if they really use the word "unlimited," that's more definite. I still think the average person would never expect truly "unlimited" usage. I think a person could still dismiss it as the advertisement speaking to the understanding/expectations of average viewers.

Mark

[BuffaloChuck]

The software is creating too many vulnerabilities. After pointing these out via email to Dan but getting no response, this product at this point is simply not secure enough.

For those that claim 'scare tactics', I'd question their motivations. How are they benefiting from keeping MJ users on-line? Are they getting paid by Dan or are they exploiting the hacks and vulnerabilities (which is my guess)?

Maybe when Dan's promised "April" fixes show up, we can deliver a better rating.

[nerd]

I am a technical support agent for a Cable Telecommunications company and I must say, "unlimited" is always limited to reasonable usage. You cannot beat 5000 hours of long distance out of it and not expect to be punished in some fashion. Unlimited usage means unlimited without abusing it - so if you abused it, and now you're angry, that's your fault, not theirs.

If the provider does not cap you to a reasonable limit, you are hurting the service for others. So, others, reading this ridiculous thread, should be glad the company is suspending or banning abusers of the service, that would otherwise raise the price for everyone and cause service issues with phone carriers getting your call through - there would be no availability to patch your call through. You would just get dialing to silence or give you a fast busy signal (temporary failure).

[nerd]

I've had several months of good service but now for the past two weeks incoming calls are always choppy sounding.

If VOIP calls are choppy, have gaps or garbled speech, it's your network or Internet provider at fault in most cases. Have your ISP technical support check for packet loss or high latency issues.

Also, VOIP does not work properly on internet "lite" packages less than approximately 200 kilobit per second in either direction, upload or download. If you so much as fart on the Internet while you're using the phone, you will get garbled speech or gaps, sometimes dropping, because the capped speed cannot handle both.

[robatino]

I am a technical support agent for a Cable Telecommunications company and I must say, "unlimited" is always "limited" to reasonable usage. You cannot beat 5000 hours of long distance out of it and not expect to be punished in some fashion. Unlimited usage means unlimited without abusing it - so if you abused it, and now you're angry, that's your fault, not theirs.

My dictionary defines "unlimited" differently from the way you do. It's also untrue that "unlimited" always has a "reasonable usage" limitation, even in the special case of ISPs. For example, Verizon DSL has no caps of any kind. There is no known case of anyone ever being kicked off for excessive usage. Companies that provide actual, dictionary-definition unlimited, should be distinguishable in their advertising from those that only provide "reasonable, as defined by us" unlimited.

If MJ would qualify their ads with some fine print, there wouldn't be a problem. But there isn't any. The TOS do allow for being booted for excessive use, but without any fine print, the ads are contradicting that.

[az2008]

So, others, reading this ridiculous thread, should be glad the company is suspending or banning abusers of the service, that would otherwise raise the price for everyone and cause service issues with phone carriers getting your call through -

I tend to agree with this. I didn't have a problem with the "excessive use" terminations at the end of October. My problem was (and is) that the limits aren't clearly defined. There is no warning that someone is approaching the limit. No clear disclosure that they crossed the limit (and had been terminated). Even the support group was unaware that the policy was being enforced.

I'm ok with "unlimited" being used in advertising in terms of what average users would experience. My old landline company said I would always get a dial tone when I pick up the handset. But, we all know that if *everyone* in the country picks up their handset at the same time, you're not going to get a dial tone. (Remember the common "all circuits are busy" message during Mothers Day, et. al?).

I think it's unreasonable to apply a dictionary to these things. It's generally accepted that terms like this are used within the context of "normal usage" (as defined by the average person). But, I agree with "robatino" that there should be an asterisk, and the limits clearly defined (like they are at Skype).

The way MJ handled it was the real problem. If they gave a friendly warning. And, clear indication of why the user was terminated (instead of just a phone number to call that nobody answered), I think most people (unaffected) would have thought it was a normal business practice.

Mark

[g-man]

I am a technical support agent for a Cable Telecommunications company and I must say, "unlimited" is always limited to reasonable usage. You cannot beat 5000 hours of long distance out of it and not expect to be punished in some fashion. Unlimited usage means unlimited without abusing it - so if you abused it, and now you're angry, that's your fault, not theirs.

If the provider does not cap you to a reasonable limit, you are hurting the service for others. So, others, reading this ridiculous thread, should be glad the company is suspending or banning abusers of the service, that would otherwise raise the price for everyone and cause service issues with phone carriers getting your call through - there would be no availability to patch your call through. You would just get dialing to silence or give you a fast busy signal (temporary failure).

Having gone rounds with my local cable company branch manager over the strangle hold they placed on my unlimited internet I can tell you from a cable company point of view he speaks the truth. It was just after what they called a switch outage that took down our local cable company's internet they placed a new piece of "small print" in their contract. You are allowed up to 3 meg down, but if you use the total 3 megs for over an hour they split your band width in half and the split it again at 30 minutes and then again at 30 minutes until you are slower than dialup.

I was told it was to prevent gamers from hogging the network and that I should not use that much bandwdith. I told them I creat websites for a living and I was jsut downloading via FTP a site. They said it was because of people like me taking all the bandwidth that caused the switch to blow. So I told them to shove it and moved to 7 meg DSL at qwest. Never had a problem and my internet is fast enough to watch streaming Netflix.

Now if I could jsut get rid of the rest of the money grabbing cable people that give me my TV programing... No offence nerd..

[az2008]

Now if I could jsut get rid of the rest of the money grabbing cable people that give me my TV programing... No offence nerd..

Personally, I don't have problems with limits. Network capacity is a perishable commodity. For example, I wouldn't expect Dan to have enough network capacity to allow *everyone* to talk 24x7. It's based upon average patterns of use. Just like the local grocery store doesn't stock an unlimited supply of apples "just in case everyone decides to buy a month's supply at once."

We'd pay a fortune if every link in the chain had to provide as much on-demand bandwidth as everyone might decide to use at the same moment. Thus begins the incentive to force outliers into the norm (throttling, caps, metered usage).

Mark

[Matt9876]

Love the Wiki AZ!

Nice work all who contribute,getting more chop on incoming calls lately guess the service is getting oversold or something.

[mberlant]

Personally, I don't have problems with limits. Network capacity is a perishable commodity. For example, I wouldn't expect Dan to have enough network capacity to allow *everyone* to talk 24x7.

In order to use the word "unlimited" in advertising it must be true. MJ must have enough network capacity to allow those who want to talk 24/7 to be able to do so. That means that the onus is on MJ's engineers and actuaries to calculate a price at which they can support those customers who do use the service much more heavily than most. If they cannot do this they cannot say "unlimited" in their advertising.

I only have heartache with caps and limits when they contradict the advertising that led me to purchase the product. The ISPs spent many years beating it into our heads that internet service is fast and unlimited. Had they said from the beginning that it was limited to some large amount they would have a case. But the word has only one meaning in the English language.

[az2008]

In order to use the word "unlimited" in advertising it must be true. MJ must have ...

1. When did MJ use the word "unlimited?"

2. The word "unlimited" can have the meaning expected by the average user it is targeted at. I.e., if the average user consumes 3 hours per week, then for all intents and purposes, the average user will experience "unlimited" calling.

Personally I see nothing wrong with #2. But, I'm not stupid enough to believe that anything (*anything*) is truly "unlimited" in the absolute sense of the word. When I hear it, I think "marketing" within the context of the average person the marketing is targeted at.

Mark

[mikejlb]

I am a technical support agent for a Cable Telecommunications company and I must say, "unlimited" is always limited to reasonable usage. You cannot beat 5000 hours of long distance out of it and not expect to be punished in some fashion. Unlimited usage means unlimited without abusing it - so if you abused it, and now you're angry, that's your fault, not theirs.

If the provider does not cap you to a reasonable limit, you are hurting the service for others. So, others, reading this ridiculous thread, should be glad the company is suspending or banning abusers of the service, that would otherwise raise the price for everyone and cause service issues with phone carriers getting your call through - there would be no availability to patch your call through. You would just get dialing to silence or give you a fast busy signal (temporary failure).

I renewed my Skype account recently. Skype has usage limit of 10,000 minutes a month. 10,000 / 30 = close to 6 hours a day. Some people might have a need for more than 6 hours a day, 7 days a week, but most people won't use even half that amount.

I regret buying MJ at this point because the calls cut out and have silent gaps of 20 seconds or so. I don't use a phone more than an hour a day but it appears that MJ has been less than honest in advertising and this will eventually destroy thier reputation.

[az2008]

... but it appears that MJ has been less than honest in advertising and this will eventually destroy thier reputation.

IMO, there's nothing Dan can do to destroy his reputation any further than he already has. There's not much he can do to top the antics he's already pulled on his customers. Selling 4 years of usage as 5. And a month later springing 30-minute call caps on customers (two occurrences of "bait and switch?").

The 4 = 5 stunt happened just 3 days after Dan promised the BBB he'd clean up his act (in return for having his F rating changed to an NR (not rated).

Dan seems like a sociopath. The kind of person who, when presented with the choice of lying or telling the truth, really can't describe the difference. It's obvious he has no concern for his own reputation. So, it's no surprise that he has no concern for how his customers may feel about the way they're treated (lied to for 3-4 days after surprise changes in service, etc.).

MJ is a great idea. It's just too bad it was Dan's idea. He's the wrong guy to carry a game-changer.

Mark

[macman4hire]

First I would like to thank all of the contributors who posted constructive and relevant information on how to get the MJ to preform at it's optimum level. The question that I have is related to minute usage. If I have individuals call my MJ number and forward the calls to another line does this time count as minutes used?

[mberlant]

Yes, because the outbound leg of the call is "charged" to you, just like with Call Forwarding from Ma Bell. Are you worried about having so much inbound forwarded traffic that MJ will get upset?

[UnknownLerker]

WOW! Hello there,

I find this very interesting that MagicJack is implementing all of these rules, and regulations, and policies now. I hardly ever use my MagicJack so I probably won't be enforced ever. However, I did think it's interesting how they said they only market "Free Calls", and not Unlimited. However, I just went to magicjack.com to research this further, and right on the front page it gives the generic "Make all the free calls you want"

Right on the right where it says Free Trial Offer.

[UnknownLerker]

Must only be in limited cases, or case by case.


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