Magic Jack stops Windows Screensaver from working

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bitstopjoe
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Post by bitstopjoe »

Shame it doesnt work for me on XP SP3...

Joe Sica
Greek2U
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Use Turn Off Monitor Application

Post by Greek2U »

http://www.rtsoftwares.com/TurnOffMonit ... onitor.htm
The application found at the link above will help you overide MJ's limitations on power saving features (such as allowing for a screen saver and putting the monitor to sleep). This is a trial version (sorry for the previous incorrect info). The software has been successfully tested with Windows 98, 2000, ME, XP, Vista and Windows 7!
It was an easy fix for me and has some cool features like hotkeys for powersaving options.
Last edited by Greek2U on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
gahbahj
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Re: Use Turn Off Monitor Application

Post by gahbahj »

Greek2U wrote:...TurnOffMonitor ... free version will not expire and is only limited in features compared to the registered version ...
seems the website disagrees with you:

"Free trial version is only limited by number of uses and has all the functionalities enabled"

are you trying to sell something or can someone confirm your claim? i guess i'm not gonna take the time to do so since i believe the site.
nailgunner
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Post by nailgunner »

Yea, I agree Gahbahj. Website says you can turn monitor off 10 times with the trial version. Heck, I'll use that up just testing the system. No thanks.
infringer
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Post by infringer »

ok here is the deal

all day long and a simple capitol "J" in magicJack.exe stumped me

follow this it works! step by step:

hit the start button in windows7

type cmd into the search box

rightclick on cmd run as administrator

type powercfg /requestsoverride PROCESS magicJack.exe DISPLAY <------------------This is case sensitive type this line exactly the same as shown!

make sure you typed the capitol letters and not lower case look at the one in magic"J"ack make sure that is capitol as well!

hit enter

unplug your magicjack

reboot your computer and leave it unplugged

once computer boots up set your screen saver for 1minute then let it sit for one minute to activate screen saver ...

Now plug in your magic jack let it sit for another minute viola screen saver active now!

if you wish to activate sleep as well follow the same instructions but just type this line instead of that line:

type powercfg /requestsoverride PROCESS magicJack.exe DISPLAY SYSTEM

Bingo if you follow this it will work! you don't have to type out this long line of garbadge \device\yadda\yadda\yadda to get this to work!

ENJOY!

-infringer-
magicjack needs to reconsider staying green!
infringer
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Post by infringer »

PS if mj keeps this garbage up I am moving to NETTALK they have a device that don't require the use of a PC at all just a router and good to go!

First it was 2 months of no calling out due to a busy signal then they hit you with this BS! pffft! I am all too not impressed and it's my primary phone and they just sat back and scratched there ass like nothing was happening!

I talked to these people daily and there tech support is really not tech support they are telemarketers posing as technically skilled individuals ... I finally got to some important person on 3 occasions then you know what they tell me ?

I will submit a message to the technicians I thought wow what a concept a technician technically should this not be the person I am talking to in the first place for tech support not some over glorified telemarketer?

Anyhow what I said does work for windows 7 unfortunately according to ms these are windows 7 only commands...

Alternately you could use the Visual Basic Script posted here for other operating systems but personally I would kick down on the cash for windows 7 if at all possible well worth it !

VBS is located here:
http://www.phoneservicesupport.com/fix- ... t9595.html
magicjack needs to reconsider staying green!
nailgunner
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Post by nailgunner »

Well....it was a nice thought. I thought maybe the EXACT sequence would make a difference, but no. Back to the drawing board for me.
areamike
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Post by areamike »

infringer wrote:PS if mj keeps this garbage up I am moving to NETTALK they have a device that don't require the use of a PC at all just a router and good to go!
Good luck with that. I've read nothing but crap reviews about them. I was tempted to try them, but after reviewing them, I'll keep my MJ. I'm not going to let the fact that my screensaver wont work unless I do a few commands sway me.
ducksoup
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Post by ducksoup »

areamike wrote:unless I do a few commands sway me.
I put a shortcut in my quick launch toolbar to power down my monitor with a single click. You can do the same with a shortcut to turn on your screensaver if you want. Just bust out the Google Fu and search for "Screensaver Shortcut."
holmziep
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Me Too! and IF you run AVG FREE, read on...

Post by holmziep »

Yup! monitor shutdown is ignored. Have mine set for 20 minutes. Will try to reset it after magicJack starts up. That's a pain every time you restart your computer. The system won't get into stand-by either, hard drive doesn't spin down. That hasn't happened since the beginning. We all know about it, I guess? (How would we get a phone call when it's in stand-by?)

If your computer is a HOT PLATE, and you are running AVG FREE, that's because AVG's Cache Server is detecting activity on the two magicJack "phantom" USB drives as they (according to AVG) are "mounted continuously" and changing data which has to be compared with that in AVG's Cache Server. (!?).

That's odd, because the drives are '"dismounted" after magicJack finishes loading...Hmmm.

If yo have the above, open task manager and look at the AVG items, avgwdsvs.exe and avgchsvx.exe. you see unnecessary excessive activity, and a lot of CPU cycles gobbled up, making HEAT on your processor and power supply. (and possibly keeping your screensaver and monitor awake???)

Ya really don't need the AVG Cache Server, and though it is designed to speed up real-time file checking, it is obviously not doing a useful function with magicJack.

Disable AVG's Cache Server by opening AVG Free's User Interface, then TOOLS, ADVANCED SETTINGS, select the Cache Server on the left, and uncheck it on the right, and apply and close. Now check Task Manager, and note the increase in performance.

Good luck.
holmziep n2exg
A little knowledge can be DANGEROUS
areamike
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Post by areamike »

ducksoup wrote:
areamike wrote:unless I do a few commands sway me.
I put a shortcut in my quick launch toolbar to power down my monitor with a single click. You can do the same with a shortcut to turn on your screensaver if you want. Just bust out the Google Fu and search for "Screensaver Shortcut."
No need.
Once I did the commands prefaced in this topic and I've never looked back. Even after reboot, the power savings changes held.
thewitt
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Re: screen saver

Post by thewitt »

I too hate having my laptop screen on all the time because of the MJ update. I complained to MJ via technical chat. HOPEFULLY they will fix this soon. In the mean time I found a utility that will turn off the screen. The only problem is I have to do this manually every time I leave the CPU. It's called wizmo.exe and is free.
joehr2
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magicjack and screensaver in windows 7

Post by joehr2 »

you can start the screensaver manually by creating a desktop icon. Go to search on the start menu and search for *.scr. Find your screen saver of choice in the results and right click on it and create shortcut on the desktop. when ever you are leaving your computer, just double click and you have your screensaver.
bitstopjoe
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Re: magicjack and screensaver in windows 7

Post by bitstopjoe »

joehr2 wrote:you can start the screensaver manually by creating a desktop icon. Go to search on the start menu and search for *.scr. Find your screen saver of choice in the results and right click on it and create shortcut on the desktop. when ever you are leaving your computer, just double click and you have your screensaver.
Unless you have your monitor power off, say after 5 min. I don't think you can make a shortcut for that, or can you??

Joe Sica
cameron2003mj
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Re: Windows Vista Fix

Post by cameron2003mj »

I did this as administrator but my Vista machine still wont sleep. I am just going to turn MJ off until I need it. Otherwise it is sucking up electricty, which defeats the purpose of saving money.

show.stopper wrote:I did the following to fix the issue in Vista. I am running Vista Home Premium 32bit.

Go to the CMD prompt and type the following:

powercfg -devicequery all_devices

(Now look for the MagicJack device, it was listed as "PHONE" on mine. You can always unplug the MagicJack and run the command above again to see if the device in question disappears.) Next type (replacing "PHONE" with the name your computer lists):

powercfg -devicedisablewake PHONE

That should fix it. Rember to be logged in as an administrator. It came back to state the following, "You do not have permission to enable or disable device wake." However, it is working on my PC now. Hope this helps!
dubs66
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Post by dubs66 »

My MJ has been off since the day I figured out what was causing my computer monitor to not go into standby. It took me awhile to figure out it was the stupid MJ (time of my life lost messing around w/ this piece of junk) :roll: I'm still to pissed to talk to tech support, I know there is NO real support as if there was this would be fixed by now. This company is crap. Yeah I know, i'm taking this to hard but I really did spend hours trying to figure out what was wrong w/ my computer :x and i'm just not all that happy about it. What was this up date for? Lucky you??? HAHA
O.k. I feel a little better now :wink:
ringleader
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This helped me with the problem

Post by ringleader »

FOR WINDOWS 7 ONLY

Step 01 - Start>All Programs>Accessories>(right click)Command Prompt>Run As Administrator

Step 02 - at C prompt, type "powercfg /requests" without the " ", then hit return

The result will be something like this:

DISPLAY:
[PROCESS] \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Users\????\AppData\Roaming\mjusbsp\magicJack.exe

SYSTEM:
[PROCESS] \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Users\????\AppData\Roaming\mjusbsp\magicJack.exe

AWAYMODE:
None.

This is the important part of the result:
DISPLAY:
[PROCESS] \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Users\????\AppData\Roaming\mjusbsp\magicJack.exe
(or whatever it is that is exactly written in your result. Use what is in your result.)

(Note: The characters that take the place of "????" between Users and AppData in your result is unique to your computer. Use those characters instead of "????")

Step 03 - Again at the C prompt, type "powercfg /requestsoverride PROCESS magicJack.exe DISPLAY" without the " ". Hit return.

Step 04 - Finally, at the C prompt, type "powercfg /requestsoverride PROCESS \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Users\????\AppData\Roaming\mjusbsp\magicJack.exe DISPLAY" without the " ".(Again, note that the characters between Users and AppData should be the same as the characters in the result of Step 02). Hit return.

That's it.
Last edited by ringleader on Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
cameron2003mj
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Re: This helped me with the problem

Post by cameron2003mj »

This must be for Windows 7. My vista machine just says "invalid paramerters" when I try that.

ringleader wrote:Step 01 - Start>All Programs>Accessories>(right click)Command Prompt>Run As Administrator

Step 02 - at C prompt, type "powercfg /requests" (w/out " ") then hit return

You will see something like this:

DISPLAY:
[PROCESS] \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Users\????\AppData\Roaming\mjusbsp\magicJack.exe

SYSTEM:
[PROCESS] \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Users\????\AppData\Roaming\mjusbsp\magicJack.exe

AWAYMODE:
None.

This is the important part of the result:
DISPLAY:
[PROCESS] \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Users\????\AppData\Roaming\mjusbsp\magicJack.exe


(Note: The characters that take the place of "????" between Users and AppData in your result is unique to your computer. Use those characters instead of "????")

Step 03 - Again at the C prompt, type "powercfg /requestsoverride PROCESS magicJack.exe DISPLAY" without the " ". Hit return.

Step 04 - At the C prompt, type "powercfg /requestsoverride PROCESS \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Users\????\AppData\Roaming\mjusbsp\magicJack.exe DISPLAY" without the " ".(Please note the characters between Users and AppData should should be the same as the characters in the result of Step 02). Hit return.

That's it.
bunnyb0y
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Re: This helped me with the problem

Post by bunnyb0y »

ringleader wrote:FOR WINDOWS 7 ONLY
Thanks! Worked perfectly on my Win7 64bit.
nailgunner
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Post by nailgunner »

Thats not IT. No matter HOW many times I try this on my Windows 7, it doesn't work. The only thing that works for me is the "unplug MJ" solution.
gregory
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When will they repair the screensaver screwup?

Post by gregory »

Why won't they acknowledge the upgrade is not appropriatly handling the screensaver function on their clients computers? What I saw on the tech chats was just skirting the questions and issue. What is their real purpose in doing this? I just unplugged the darn thing and will see how much I really do need it when it comes time to renew. :(
bitstopjoe
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Re: When will they repair the screensaver screwup?

Post by bitstopjoe »

gregory wrote:Why won't they acknowledge the upgrade is not appropriatly handling the screensaver function on their clients computers? What I saw on the tech chats was just skirting the questions and issue. What is their real purpose in doing this? I just unplugged the darn thing and will see how much I really do need it when it comes time to renew. :(
Seems to some as MJ will soon be showing ads on their softphone and want the softphone to show and not go into screensaver mode. However IF that is the case I guess they forgot about being able to minimize it!!!

Joe Sica
nailgunner
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Post by nailgunner »

Way to go Joe, thanks for reminding them. That's gonna be their next update. In order to use MJ, their screen will now be frozen smack in the middle of our screen. :twisted:
mmagic
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Me too

Post by mmagic »

XP SP3. After installing MJ upgrade, the standard XP screensaver works, but the monitor never goes into power save mode.

I noticed that if I lock the screen, power save does work.

Mark
bitstopjoe
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Re: Me too

Post by bitstopjoe »

mmagic wrote:XP SP3. After installing MJ upgrade, the standard XP screensaver works, but the monitor never goes into power save mode.

I noticed that if I lock the screen, power save does work.

Mark
I can get my powersave to work as I do not use a screen saver. What you need to do is go to the power save settings, choose NEVER, then ok, then choose 5 min ( or whatever you want) and then click ok again
Works for me everytime, IF I remember to do it that is :) I am also on XP SP3

Joe Sica
bitstopjoe
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Re: Me too

Post by bitstopjoe »

mmagic wrote:XP SP3. After installing MJ upgrade, the standard XP screensaver works, but the monitor never goes into power save mode.

I noticed that if I lock the screen, power save does work.

Mark
OR worse yet disable the power button on our monitors!!!!!!!!! THEN the power button on our PC's! Holy crap then stop our breakers from tripping in our homes!! God only knows what after that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

Trust me they do not need my help for the way they think!! Dan does a great job on his own, maybe his two dogs tell him what to do to screw with us! You know, This is Magic and this is Jack :)

SORRY Wrong quote as I mean to quote Nailgunner DOH. Fat fingers :)

Joe Sica
Last edited by bitstopjoe on Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
saudzforum
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Contact:

Post by saudzforum »

I tried downgrading the firmware but I get an error every time. Is there any way to downgrade the firmware.
bitstopjoe
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Post by bitstopjoe »

saudzforum wrote:I tried downgrading the firmware but I get an error every time. Is there any way to downgrade the firmware.
No, there is no way, that I am aware of, to go back a to a previous MJ version without being forced to update again..
MJ only allowed that one time, last yr, after their update caused a major beeping issue.. Once they finally resloved it a few weeks later they forced an update and one could not go back anymore.

Joe Sica
saudzforum
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Post by saudzforum »

I was chatting with MJ and they told me to go to Screen saver > Power button then select the "Turn off monitor" to Never and then click OK
then again push the power button and then select the "turn off monitor" to 5 min.
and it worked on my XP.
bitstopjoe
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Post by bitstopjoe »

saudzforum wrote:I was chatting with MJ and they told me to go to Screen saver > Power button then select the "Turn off monitor" to Never and then click OK
then again push the power button and then select the "turn off monitor" to 5 min.
and it worked on my XP.
uhh that is exactly what I posted here a few posts above this, plus it is posted elsewhere in this forum, that is why search AND reading a tad is your friend.
We try to help so people do NOT have to chat with support. You will find more help here than anywhere else for your MJ..

Joe Sica
nailgunner
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Hallelujah...Good things come to those who wait

Post by nailgunner »

They fixed it. A new update, 2.0.3 has FIXED the screensaver problem. Never did get it fixed with the above command line changes. Saw there was a new update that supposedly fixed it, downloaded it, and MIRACLE. I guess they do listen, it's a shame they couldn't have just admitted a fix was in the works. But I'll shut up, since I'm happy.
gordoncanada
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Still not working for me

Post by gordoncanada »

Hello everybody. My first post.
My monitor still will not go black. Is there something else I can try?
How do you know you have the latest update? Magic Jack updated itself yesterday (and stopped working until the computer was restarted).
Thanks, gordoncanada
nailgunner
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Re: Still not working for me

Post by nailgunner »

gordoncanada wrote:Hello everybody. My first post.
My monitor still will not go black. Is there something else I can try?
How do you know you have the latest update? Magic Jack updated itself yesterday (and stopped working until the computer was restarted).
Thanks, gordoncanada
Click on the "menu" button on your magicJack screen. At the bottom of the window that opens will be "majicJack" followed by the version number, which should show 2.0.3 for the latest. When I WANT to install an update, I uninstall the old version first, run my registry cleaner, and plug the MJ back in which will install the latest update.
gordoncanada
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Thanks

Post by gordoncanada »

Thanks for the info. It worked!
gordoncanada
jerryack
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Screensaver/Moitor Power

Post by jerryack »

I spent several hours trying to determine why my wife's monitor wouldn't power down. I blamed MS because it occurred after an MS update. Now I find the culprit is MagicJack. I unplugged it and now all is well. I'll only plug it in when we need it. Such nonsense. And, with all the posts and dialogue with MJ tech support, you'd think the company would have issued a fix. Nah! Bad Company.
JerryA
bitstopjoe
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Re: Screensaver/Moitor Power

Post by bitstopjoe »

jerryack wrote:I spent several hours trying to determine why my wife's monitor wouldn't power down. I blamed MS because it occurred after an MS update. Now I find the culprit is MagicJack. I unplugged it and now all is well. I'll only plug it in when we need it. Such nonsense. And, with all the posts and dialogue with MJ tech support, you'd think the company would have issued a fix. Nah! Bad Company.
Had you read JUST a bit you would have seen they HAVE issued a fix.. 2.03 DUH

Joe Sica
User avatar
sabresfan
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Re: Screensaver/Moitor Power

Post by sabresfan »

bitstopjoe wrote:
jerryack wrote:I spent several hours trying to determine why my wife's monitor wouldn't power down. I blamed MS because it occurred after an MS update. Now I find the culprit is MagicJack. I unplugged it and now all is well. I'll only plug it in when we need it. Such nonsense. And, with all the posts and dialogue with MJ tech support, you'd think the company would have issued a fix. Nah! Bad Company.
Had you read JUST a bit you would have seen they HAVE issued a fix.. 2.03 DUH

Joe Sica
Joe your the man. :D
bitstopjoe
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Re: Screensaver/Moitor Power

Post by bitstopjoe »

sabresfan wrote:
bitstopjoe wrote:
jerryack wrote:I spent several hours trying to determine why my wife's monitor wouldn't power down. I blamed MS because it occurred after an MS update. Now I find the culprit is MagicJack. I unplugged it and now all is well. I'll only plug it in when we need it. Such nonsense. And, with all the posts and dialogue with MJ tech support, you'd think the company would have issued a fix. Nah! Bad Company.
Had you read JUST a bit you would have seen they HAVE issued a fix.. 2.03 DUH

Joe Sica
Joe your the man. :D
I mean he didn't even have to read the whole 9 or 10 pages of posts JUST the one or two before his, can you spell L A Z Y ? Sheesh.
I have been better in telling people to search. I have been biting my tongue, actually I have pretty much given up on it. But come on that one I HAD to say something..

Joe Sica
cameron2003mj
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Here is the link to upgrade:

Post by cameron2003mj »

cameron2003mj
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hard drive

Post by cameron2003mj »

The upgrade seems to have fixed the monitor problem, but my hard drive still doesn't sleep with MJ on.
gregory
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Screensaver problem

Post by gregory »

Well hallelujah! And thanks to this site for making the matter known.
ducksoup
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Re: hard drive

Post by ducksoup »

cameron2003mj wrote:The upgrade seems to have fixed the monitor problem, but my hard drive still doesn't sleep with MJ on.
The upgrade was only to address the monitor/screensaver issue.

If I'm not mistaken, MJ will not work (you can't receive incoming calls) if your hard drive is taking a nap.
ducksoup
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Re: Screensaver/Moitor Power

Post by ducksoup »

bitstopjoe wrote:Had you read JUST a bit you would have seen they HAVE issued a fix.. 2.03 DUH

Joe Sica
This post brought to you by the hard working folks at Captain Obvious, Inc.

"Captain Obvious, Incorporated. Where it's obvious."

:D
bitstopjoe
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Re: Screensaver/Moitor Power

Post by bitstopjoe »

ducksoup wrote:
bitstopjoe wrote:Had you read JUST a bit you would have seen they HAVE issued a fix.. 2.03 DUH

Joe Sica
This post brought to you by the hard working folks at Captain Obvious, Inc.

"Captain Obvious, Incorporated. Where it's obvious."

:D
No we had a name change, it is now "You Can't Fix Stupid Inc."
See you Monday.

Joe Sica
cameron2003mj
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Re: hard drive

Post by cameron2003mj »

Yea it won't pick up, but thats ok, I want to power down and save money at night and while I am away.

ducksoup wrote:
cameron2003mj wrote:The upgrade seems to have fixed the monitor problem, but my hard drive still doesn't sleep with MJ on.
The upgrade was only to address the monitor/screensaver issue.

If I'm not mistaken, MJ will not work (you can't receive incoming calls) if your hard drive is taking a nap.
notdeadyet
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Post by notdeadyet »

Now I will admit I haven't read this WHOLE post (Joe), but I find this too with XP..screensaver works, will NOT standby unless I do it thru Process Explorer (which I run full time), and obviously won't hybernate...as soon as I remove the MJ, it all works from the Start/shutdown/standby or shift Hybernate. No anyone get a fix for this yet..I looked at the commands that worked with W7, but I don't believe they will work with XP. (in case you're curious, I have to leave it on the XP machine, my wife's, while I'm gone for 2 weeks ;) )
bitstopjoe
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Post by bitstopjoe »

notdeadyet wrote:Now I will admit I haven't read this WHOLE post (Joe), but I find this too with XP..screensaver works, will NOT standby unless I do it thru Process Explorer (which I run full time), and obviously won't hybernate...as soon as I remove the MJ, it all works from the Start/shutdown/standby or shift Hybernate. No anyone get a fix for this yet..I looked at the commands that worked with W7, but I don't believe they will work with XP. (in case you're curious, I have to leave it on the XP machine, my wife's, while I'm gone for 2 weeks ;) )
Yes you have to kill the MJ process first before the PC will hibernate. I made a shortcut on my PC to do just this. Fast and easy. MJ did an update eariler this yr which caused this to happen. I always used to click on the safely remove hardware before I powered down my PC, to be safe. As MJ used to write to the dongle every 3 sec ( not any longer) and if you removed it at the wrong time corruption occured which required a MJ format. But their update no longer made this possible.
This is the properties of my shortcut, you may have to tweak it for your setup.
Create a new shortcut. When it comes up and says type in the location, paste the following w/o quotes:
" %windir%\System32\taskkill.exe /F /IM magicJack.exe "
Hit NEXT.
It will call it killtask.exe, or something like that. I renamed it to " mj kill ". You can name it to your preference.

Now, I shrink the mj window, double-click the mj kill shortcut, and then use the little green arrow to safely eject the hardware as before.

Give it a try. I run this every time before I put my PC in hibernate.

Joe Sica
notdeadyet
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:26 pm
Location: Southern Ontario

Post by notdeadyet »

Thanks Joe!!!, but wouldn't it be simpler (it's my wife we're talking about here) to just unplug it, and hit hibernate ;). Seems about the same, except that it involves physically removing MJ instead of using the little green arrow....guess there's no fix for XP like there was for W7 with the same problem?
bitstopjoe
Future magicJack CEO
Posts: 2844
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:25 pm
Location: North East Pennsylvania

Post by bitstopjoe »

notdeadyet wrote:Thanks Joe!!!, but wouldn't it be simpler (it's my wife we're talking about here) to just unplug it, and hit hibernate ;). Seems about the same, except that it involves physically removing MJ instead of using the little green arrow....guess there's no fix for XP like there was for W7 with the same problem?
When one constantly plugs in and removes a USB device there is a good chance at some point something will break. Trust me with that MJ KILL icon on your desktop it is just as fast as removing your MJ physically and safer too. ALSO since you said it was so fast for her to remove the MJ I assume it is plugged into the front of your PC?? Always best to use a REAR USB port when possible and never use the short extension cord which came with the MJ.
Someone smarter than me might have a way to do it the same way in 7. I THINK you can right click and do an eject on the MJ drive to achive the same thing. I THINK!!
Just my 2 cents.

Joe Sica
mk77001
MagicJack Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:17 pm

WINDOWS 7 32BIT, SCREENSAVER FUNCTION WILL NOT WORK WITH MAG

Post by mk77001 »

My windows 7 32bit, will not let my screensavers to work, when it is on, if you delete it from running screensavers come back.
When will they fix it? What do you do, to push them??
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