Annoying Beep Solution & Malfunctioning Caller ID Issue?

[Chickie]

I've had my magic jack for about a year and rarely used it. It wasn't until about 2 weeks ago I found a need for it.

I quickly found out there are problems with the magic jack hardware design.

One of which is this annoying beep (touch tone sound) that happens on the line during a call.

I am going to explain to you all why this is happening and why there are other problems with the magic jack hardware due to the same problem.

First off, there is obviously voltage and impedance design flaws that are creating these issues. The software can make up for some of it, regulating how your usb directs power to the device, however this is not always fool proof.

I'm going to prove my point...

Many of you prior to the Dec 08 upgrade had problems with your caller id. The caller id would function on your pc on the softpad but would not transmit to your telephone handset.

The solution was to go out to Radio Shack and get a 100K resistor and install this into the phone line and it worked.

Either that or do as the Magic Jack chat reps suggest and get a usb hub, powered by AC Current, (Wall Plug).

The power will then be regulated enough to transmit the additional data to the handset providing you with your caller id service.

Now, here's something interesting...

How many of you experienced both problems of the Annoying Beep and the Loss of Caller ID service? See the Poll!

I had the annoying beep prior to the upgrade. I was told by magic jack chat reps that their upgrade specifically corrected the annoying beep problem. Next thing I know, I lost my Caller ID and it has not returned. I never had a Caller ID Problem before the upgrade. What changed? Hummm....

The good thing is that the beep has gone away. I have a perfect connection with no interference what so ever.

I'm going to get some resistors and experiment with the connection and I will post my results with different OHM's.

After Thought:

Many years ago I had an analog old copper style - Verizon Land line. During every call, there was a pause in my line and the caller on the other end would hear a touch tone sound.

Thinking about how the analog telephone lines functioned, there was not too much to it to understand. You had impedance going from the outside of the homes connection box to the jumper box in the home, then to the phones themselves. If you had interference in the line, it was usually some sort of voltage / impedance problem and a tech would come out to your home, hook up a voltage meter, find what was lacking, modify some connections, add a resistor or two and your problem was solved.

Some other thoughts about DTMF:

I found this info on a DTMF Teleflow communications wiki and would like to share it with all of you as it seems quite similar to Magic Jack and its technology in some respects.

Touch tones, or DTMF, are sounds that are created using telephone keypad, or other means, to send information through automated systems.

DTMF

DTMF standards for "Dual-Tone Multi-Frequency", and are the audio signals that are generated when you press the buttons on a touch-tone telephone. They can be created by nearly active telecommunications development environments in order to interface with other automated telecommunications services. DTMF describes numbers (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) symbols and letters (*, #, A, B, C, D).

Issues with DTMF
Talk-Off

Talk-Off, or Talkoff, is the term that describes when a human voice is able to trigger touch tones, or DTMF tones during a telephone call. Talk-Off occurs when a signal processing system tries to translate sounds into to touch tones. Some people's voices are able to recreate touch tones frequently relative to the general population.


Human Voice as DTMF

Talk-Off is possible as human voices speak in the same frequencies as DTMF combinations. Unlike real touch tones generated using telephone keypads, human-voice created touch tones are not sustainable and can generally be isolated by algorithms created to determine true DTMF. However, occasionally a speech signal will momentarily contain strong frequencies in just the right frequency bands which then occur as DTMF sounds.


Testing for Talk-Off

Algorithms to detect talk-off include testing for frequency limits, signal-to-noise ratios, and duration. Hardware manufacturers attempt to strike a balance talk-off and required touch tone durations. Talk-off could be eliminated, but the result would be having to hold down telephone buttons for very long durations in order to register DTMF. Generally, it is expected that talk-off will occur from time to time, so when hardware and driver software is developed for the market, it is tested against recordings made available by Mitel and Bellcore to ensure functionality within acceptable parameters.
How to Manage Issues Surrounding Talk-Off

On occasion, talk-off can become a problem for an installed system. The immediate impulse to fix is the issue is to lengthen the touch tone detection duration in order to reduce the instances. This will only result in frustration of the majority of other users when their touch tones are not recognized. We therefore do not advocate this approach, as the manufacturers of the voice hardware have exhaustively determined the sweet-spot for you.

If the problem is frequent and system wide, ensure telephone and other cables are properly insulated from other equipment as their is a potential for them to become radio antennas. This is very rare and very probably only related to analog equipment.
Application Wide

Primarily, you should ensure your system is capable of handling all touch tones including A,B,C,D. In TeleFlow, this is handled with the "Others" path. Generally a search for Get-TT and Dictation steps, and then reviewing the application for what-if scenarios should be enough to ensure talk-off will not cause too many issues.

Please note that the TeleFlow software comes with pre-generated touch tone wave files for your use. The Generate Touch Tone step can also create any touch tone included A,B,C and D.


Specific Users

For the occasion where a user is having problems and complaining of breaks or sudden losses of information, the best approach is to explain to that person that modern equipment uses compression which can sometimes cause certain voices to trigger touch tones. Work with them to tune the system by requesting the date and time the problem occurred. You can then review the TeleFlow logs to determine what the result of the talk-off was and amend it.



Everyones input is deeply appreciated here along with your trials and results on these issues.

Would love to hear from you!

Chickie

[mberlant]

You missed the most valuable entry in your choices for response to the poll. "I have experienced neither of these problems." Without a denominator to rationalize the response pattern, the poll is worthless.

This is like putting forth an election poll asking if voters were planning to vote for Ralph Nader or Pat Paulsen, without giving the option of replying, "Obama" or "McCain" or "I am not voting." You would end up advertising that Ralph Nader was predicted to win by a landslide, which was clearly not the case.

[Chickie]

The goal in posting this poll was focused towards individuals who were reading this thread because they were experiencing the problems in the Subject Header.

Logic says: "If it does not pertain to you, why bother?"

[newtoncd]

Definitely have the annoying beep, although it seems to be significantly reduced when my wife doesn't use the speakerphone portion of our Panasonic phone.

The callerID has recently decided to function occasionally. Sometimes it works great, other times, not so much.

I guess for $20 a year, that is about par for the course.

[Chickie]

Just installed a 100K OHM resistor - now both the annoying beep and the caller id issue have been resolved!

Problem Resolution - Not Enough Power being Distributed!!!

[mberlant]

Congratulations. Ralph Nader won the election. You solved the problem of insufficient power by installing a resistor, the effect of which was to further reduce the power delivered. I must have missed that lesson in Physics class.

[dtomsimpson]

I noticed you said you got an AC powered USB - I'm plugged directly into the desktop - shouldn't this be the same thing? I can't get names on my caller id and chat support is worthless.

I've had my magic jack for about a year and rarely used it. It wasn't until about 2 weeks ago I found a need for it.

I quickly found out there are problems with the magic jack hardware design.

One of which is this annoying beep (touch tone sound) that happens on the line during a call.

I am going to explain to you all why this is happening and why there are other problems with the magic jack hardware due to the same problem.

First off, there is obviously voltage and impedance design flaws that are creating these issues. The software can make up for some of it, regulating how your usb directs power to the device, however this is not always fool proof.

I'm going to prove my point...

Many of you prior to the Dec 08 upgrade had problems with your caller id. The caller id would function on your pc on the softpad but would not transmit to your telephone handset.

The solution was to go out to Radio Shack and get a 100K resistor and install this into the phone line and it worked.

Either that or do as the Magic Jack chat reps suggest and get a usb hub, powered by AC Current, (Wall Plug).

The power will then be regulated enough to transmit the additional data to the handset providing you with your caller id service.

Now, here's something interesting...

How many of you experienced both problems of the Annoying Beep and the Loss of Caller ID service? See the Poll!

I had the annoying beep prior to the upgrade. I was told by magic jack chat reps that their upgrade specifically corrected the annoying beep problem. Next thing I know, I lost my Caller ID and it has not returned. I never had a Caller ID Problem before the upgrade. What changed? Hummm....

The good thing is that the beep has gone away. I have a perfect connection with no interference what so ever.

I'm going to get some resistors and experiment with the connection and I will post my results with different OHM's.

After Thought:

Many years ago I had an analog old copper style - Verizon Land line. During every call, there was a pause in my line and the caller on the other end would hear a touch tone sound.

Thinking about how the analog telephone lines functioned, there was not too much to it to understand. You had impedance going from the outside of the homes connection box to the jumper box in the home, then to the phones themselves. If you had interference in the line, it was usually some sort of voltage / impedance problem and a tech would come out to your home, hook up a voltage meter, find what was lacking, modify some connections, add a resistor or two and your problem was solved.

Some other thoughts about DTMF:

I found this info on a DTMF Teleflow communications wiki and would like to share it with all of you as it seems quite similar to Magic Jack and its technology in some respects.

Touch tones, or DTMF, are sounds that are created using telephone keypad, or other means, to send information through automated systems.

DTMF

DTMF standards for "Dual-Tone Multi-Frequency", and are the audio signals that are generated when you press the buttons on a touch-tone telephone. They can be created by nearly active telecommunications development environments in order to interface with other automated telecommunications services. DTMF describes numbers (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) symbols and letters (*, #, A, B, C, D).

Issues with DTMF
Talk-Off

Talk-Off, or Talkoff, is the term that describes when a human voice is able to trigger touch tones, or DTMF tones during a telephone call. Talk-Off occurs when a signal processing system tries to translate sounds into to touch tones. Some people's voices are able to recreate touch tones frequently relative to the general population.


Human Voice as DTMF

Talk-Off is possible as human voices speak in the same frequencies as DTMF combinations. Unlike real touch tones generated using telephone keypads, human-voice created touch tones are not sustainable and can generally be isolated by algorithms created to determine true DTMF. However, occasionally a speech signal will momentarily contain strong frequencies in just the right frequency bands which then occur as DTMF sounds.


Testing for Talk-Off

Algorithms to detect talk-off include testing for frequency limits, signal-to-noise ratios, and duration. Hardware manufacturers attempt to strike a balance talk-off and required touch tone durations. Talk-off could be eliminated, but the result would be having to hold down telephone buttons for very long durations in order to register DTMF. Generally, it is expected that talk-off will occur from time to time, so when hardware and driver software is developed for the market, it is tested against recordings made available by Mitel and Bellcore to ensure functionality within acceptable parameters.
How to Manage Issues Surrounding Talk-Off

On occasion, talk-off can become a problem for an installed system. The immediate impulse to fix is the issue is to lengthen the touch tone detection duration in order to reduce the instances. This will only result in frustration of the majority of other users when their touch tones are not recognized. We therefore do not advocate this approach, as the manufacturers of the voice hardware have exhaustively determined the sweet-spot for you.

If the problem is frequent and system wide, ensure telephone and other cables are properly insulated from other equipment as their is a potential for them to become radio antennas. This is very rare and very probably only related to analog equipment.
Application Wide

Primarily, you should ensure your system is capable of handling all touch tones including A,B,C,D. In TeleFlow, this is handled with the "Others" path. Generally a search for Get-TT and Dictation steps, and then reviewing the application for what-if scenarios should be enough to ensure talk-off will not cause too many issues.

Please note that the TeleFlow software comes with pre-generated touch tone wave files for your use. The Generate Touch Tone step can also create any touch tone included A,B,C and D.


Specific Users

For the occasion where a user is having problems and complaining of breaks or sudden losses of information, the best approach is to explain to that person that modern equipment uses compression which can sometimes cause certain voices to trigger touch tones. Work with them to tune the system by requesting the date and time the problem occurred. You can then review the TeleFlow logs to determine what the result of the talk-off was and amend it.



Everyones input is deeply appreciated here along with your trials and results on these issues.

Would love to hear from you!

Chickie

[mberlant]

I noticed you said you got an AC powered USB - I'm plugged directly into the desktop - shouldn't this be the same thing? I can't get names on my caller id and chat support is worthless.

You need to read through the previous postings on this forum to find the answers to both of these points. Both points are very well discussed in other lively threads.

By reading these previous posts, you will learn the situations where an external powered hub may be required, including probably in your case.

You will also learn why you will never see a caller's name nor send your own name when using MJ.

Please read before posting. Welcome aboard.

[high splicer]

Chickie.

Your input was very helpful. I have experience as a tech in the telecommunications industry, and what you stated in great detail is pretty much accurate. Typically, your local telephone man installs a load coil at the ped or cross box to tweek the line issue, and in some cases, especially with DSL issues, they may have to break bridge taps down a run to free the line from other grounding issues or interference. I purchased the magic jack simply because, I am on the road most of the year, and try to live cheap. My cellular bill, and home phone number bill is crazy....henceforth why i got the magic jack in the first place. I have the cox bundle, but only use the phone service on one phone for local calls. When i notice the dtmf tone is when there is a pause....then my wife speaks saying "hey" or "a" or "day".....but more so if my kids are pounding bandwidth either with the PS3 or downloading larger files....which is annoying since i have the 12Meg service and figured I shouldnt have a problem when I bought the magic jack.

Im not completely dissatisfied, just annoyed by the dtmf.....and my wife has noted that she can see numbers showing on the caller id feature on our pc. I too am going to experiment...possibly with a usb hub, since im only 2000 miles from home, and dont have the ability to hit Fry's or Radio Shak to condition the line.

Magic Jack is still cheaper than what I was paying for long distance service, but the constant "BEEP" gets real frustrating.

Good description on your post. You are very accurate.

[mllora81]

I am also having the same problems. Can you tell me where you got a 100K OHM resistor?

[bitstopjoe]

I am also having the same problems. Can you tell me where you got a 100K OHM resistor?

I "assume" you never heard of Radio Shack?????????????