so why does MJ+ service cost more than MJ service?

[monkeyboy]

Is this a "because we can" price gouging move or is there really some reason why MJ+ service should cost more than MJ service? Its pretty much the same, no?

[nailgunner]

Is this a "because we can" price gouging move or is there really some reason why MJ+ service should cost more than MJ service? Its pretty much the same, no?

Of course it's because they can, that's how businesses work. It happens all the time where a company will charge a different price for what is essentially the same service.

But $20 a year vs $30 a year is price gouging?

[monkeyboy]

Is this a "because we can" price gouging move or is there really some reason why MJ+ service should cost more than MJ service? Its pretty much the same, no?

Of course it's because they can, that's how businesses work. It happens all the time where a company will charge a different price for what is essentially the same service.

But $20 a year vs $30 a year is price gouging?

well, I suppose its all in the spin... of course it is a 50% increase in price for the same service, which by all amounts is a massive price increase, not unlike Netflix's 60% price increase which caused a departure of 1mil customers.

But at least Netflix's 60% price increase has some rationale, with content providers raising their prices to Netflix. Here with MJ there is NO apparent cause for the 50% price increase... except price gouging

[nailgunner]

a massive price increase

Seriously? That works out to less than a 3 cent a day increase for phone service per my calculator. Hardly a massive price gouging increase by any sane and rational definition.

Strictly using %'s is a distortion. Something that now costs me $2 a year that was once only $1 a year is a 100% price increase. But again, hardly a massive price gouging increase.

Regardless, it's not even technically a "price increase". It's the cost of the service they have decided to charge for their NEW product. You can still renew the regular MJ for the $20 a year. It's not like anyone was able to renew a Plus one year at a time for $20 and they just increased the price to $30. Their SEC filing posted elsewhere in this forum says they are operating in the red. Have to recover the infomercial cost and Dan's salary someway.

[conniemadagain]

You should feel so gouged your butt should hurt ... !!!

Although my mj+ was free so my butt is feeling and lookin good ...

[bitstopjoe]

Send us a pic so we can see for ourselves how good your butt looks

May I also ask how you got a free Plus? Also since you now have an OBi what are you doing with your Plus??

[monkeyboy]

Seriously? That works out to less than a 3 cent a day increase for phone service per my calculator. Hardly a massive price gouging increase by any sane and rational definition.

Strictly using %'s is a distortion. Something that now costs me $2 a year that was once only $1 a year is a 100% price increase. But again, hardly a massive price gouging increase.

Regardless, it's not even technically a "price increase". It's the cost of the service they have decided to charge for their NEW product.

1) I guess its obvious why "because they can" is true, what with customers that ignore %'s... MJ should have just gone to $100/yr, since that's only 21 cents a day, matching the cafe latte increase of Netflix... I'm glad you're not my buyer or purchasing agent though... %'s matter.

2) yes the MJ+ is a new product, but the point is that the SERVICE is NOT new... its the SAME old service... just priced higher "because they can".

[cell14]

yes the MJ+ is a new product, but the point is that the SERVICE is NOT new... its the SAME old service... just priced higher "because they can".

Yes, it is an extreme price increase "because they can" , indeed. It would be a concern to me in a market controlled by a few big players. But we are talking about tens of VOIP providers. Competition plenty. If they can get away with it- good for them.

[nailgunner]

I guess its obvious why "because they can" is true, what with customers that ignore %'s... MJ should have just gone to $100/yr, since that's only 21 cents a day, matching the cafe latte increase of Netflix... I'm glad you're not my buyer or purchasing agent though... %'s matter.

I certainly don't ignore %'s. I just ignore %'s when they are subsequently introduced as a red herring in a discussion. You obviously couldn't defend your initial post of calling an annual $10 price difference as "price gouging", so it was suddenly a 50% increase that was bothering you.

And %'s can matter, especially on a daily cafe latte purchase, just not on a $10 difference on an annual service contract.

And your continuing analogy with NetFlix is WAY off base. NetFlix made a change to CURRENT customers and they had NO other options but to go along with the price increase or cancel the service. MagicJack is not forcing a price increase on anyone. The analogy would be if NetFlix offered a new method to access their services, but charged more for essentially the same thing. But even then you would have the option to IGNORE their new product just like you can now with the Plus.

MagicJack can be accused of a lot of negative stuff. Bad customer service. Poorly run company. Crazy inventor. I love saving a penny as much as the next guy, which is why I use MJ in the first place. But regardless, if the % price "difference" is 50%, 500%, or 5,000%. I just see categorizing a $10 extra out-of-pocket ANNUAL difference as "price gouging" as per you initial post or a "massive price increase" as per your subsequent post, as a "massive laughable hyperbole overkill". Just an opinion.

[nightstryke]

I would probably say that the 10 dollar price increase is most likely due to the marketing and manufacturing expenses that go into making the pluses. Then they charge like 69.95 for the plus to make somewhat of a profit on the device so that they can continue to operate. Realistically they probably don't spend anymore than 10 to 20 bucks to actually make the devices as all the parts in a plus or even an original are pretty much standard parts that you could buy yourself from radioshack for dirt cheap.

[monkeyboy]

I certainly don't ignore %'s. I just ignore %'s when they are subsequently introduced as a red herring in a discussion. You obviously couldn't defend your initial post of calling an annual $10 price difference as "price gouging", so it was suddenly a 50% increase that was bothering you.

And your continuing analogy with NetFlix is WAY off base. The analogy would be if NetFlix offered a new method to access their services, but charged more for essentially the same thing.
Just an opinion.

wow... yup just YOUR opinion...
the fact that it is a 50% price increase for the SAME service, with NO overt rationale for the increase (unlike Netflix) *is* by definition, "price gouging". So yes that is "my defense" for the claim of price gouging: increase in pricing without clear rationale except to increase profits -- opportunistic increases in pricing.

I don't find the analogy with Netflix off base at all -- MY opinion. Netflix increased their pricing for the SAME service by 60%. MJ increased their pricing for the SAME service by 50%. Netflix actually *had* a rationale, so few called it price gouging, instead it was just stupid the way they handled it.

let's just agree to disagree... obviously $10/yr is not a lot in most contexts, but that does not mean it is not price gouging (definition above), anymore than carriers charging 10 cents/SMS text msg when it costs them 0.0001 cent/SMS -- its still price gouging...

[nailgunner]

by definition, "price gouging"

Not price gouging by other definitions besides mine:

Definition for price gouging:
Web definitions:
pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Or from a wiki:

Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock: examples include price increases after hurricanes or other natural disasters.....
The term is not in widespread use in mainstream economic theory, but is sometimes used to refer to practices of a coercive monopoly which raises prices above the market rate that would otherwise prevail in a competitive environment.


You're right about one thing, we will have to agree to disagree. NetFlix forced it's price increase on it's then current customers. How that compares to MJ charging more for the same service on a NEW product totally escapes me. MJ has not, since I've been a customer, ever had a price increase for the annual service that they forced on current customers, even at renewal time. Not sure what purpose exaggeration and hyperbole serves when it's not needed when discussing 92% of what MJ does.

[monkeyboy]

Definition for price gouging:
Web definitions:
pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available.

the definitions you've selected from are relevant when discussing ABSOLUTE pricing levels. This discussion is about pricing INCREASES, which are relative not absolute, e.g. 50% increase. So you neglected to cite the other definitions which refer to rapid increases in pricing that have no underlying cost-side basis.

Furthermore, under your cited definitions, if MJ raised their service pricing by 1000% (10X), $20 to $200/yr, you *still* could claim it wasn't price gouging since it is still below prevailing prices like Vonage, TW, etc...

on the other hand there are also plenty of FREE VoIP vendors, so then MJ *is* much higher than those... in other words, that criterion is useless in this market...

You are right that the situation is not totally parallel to Netflix (nor did I imply it was, but rather just a point in comparison), because Netflix's price increase WAS cost-side base, NOT "just because they can" (obviously they couldn't anyways). That is why Netflix felt the need "force" current customers, just as any gas station does when their own costs rise. But MJ's case is NOT like that at all...

My original question in this thread was: does the increase in SERVICE pricing reflect some *real* (cost-based) or value-based improvement in the service (not the product), or it is just "because they can". No one has yet disputed the notion of "just because they can"...

[nailgunner]

This discussion is about pricing INCREASES

You keep overlooking the fact that there has been NO price increase. You have 2 choices, ignoring the temporary discount on the Plus.

You can buy a regular MJ for $40 and pay $20 for continued service a year later. Or you can buy a Plus for $70 and pay $30 for continued service a year later. Because the service is the same with the 2 products does not equal a price increase. Any price "difference" for service is there ONLY if you choose to buy their different product offering. Different service "price points" for different products. Unlike your NetFlix example where an increase was forced.

And I didn't dispute your concept of "because they can" in my initial response either. I only dispute the "price gouging" and "massive price increase" nonsense.

Edit: If anything it's possible they are now under-pricing the cost of the service of the regular MJ, especially when they look at what competitors charge for service, because they have a million of them in inventory and want the cheap asses among us to keep buying them as well.

[monkeyboy]

This discussion is about pricing INCREASES

You keep overlooking the fact that there has been NO price increase.

and you continue to be unable to explain how the SERVICE for the two pricings are different, why the service for the MJ+ should cost 50% more when they are the identical SERVICE (not product, forget about the product).

I drive into a gas station with my BMW and get charged 50% more for gas than you driving in with your Ford Focus, even though its the same gas... or I begin new cable TV service for my 50" plasma TV and get charged 50% more for the same cable TV service that you get for your 20" 15yr old CRT TV.

[nailgunner]

forget about the product

You can't ignore the product, that's what the service is attached to.

They want to move out regular MJ's. Or they are matching the pricing of NetTalk since that is their closest competitor. Or per their audited financial statements they can't continue offering annual service for $20 a year and are increasing the price in 2012 for the regular MJ as well (which has been mentioned in product reviews posted in here). Or a dozen other business decisions. Certainly laughable to call it price gouging and a massive price increase.

[bitstopjoe]

Isn't the bottom line let the free market decide??
If the public sees it as gouging, then they will stay away, if not they will buy and renew.
If Net Talk renewal was $20 a yr then maybe MJ would not have charged $30 for what is a NT clone.

Again to me it is a moot point what to call it as the consumer in the end will decide what it is or isn't.

Just my 2 cents ( 4 cents if I wanted to gouge)

[nailgunner]

Isn't the bottom line let the free market decide??

Who asked you?

But that is the bottom line. Find a price that doesn't make the consumer flee to the competitor based on price alone. Especially if you are going to be sitting side-by-side in WalMarts with NetTalk.

Lord knows how MJ came to their final pricing decision since we witnessed the circus in here of them changing the price even on their own automated ordering system at the last minute. I think it was a mistake settling on the exact prices as NetTalk, but time will tell.

[bitstopjoe]

Isn't the bottom line let the free market decide??

Who asked you?

. I think it was a mistake settling on the exact prices as NetTalk, but time will tell.

I agree as side by side for the same price a human to talk to for C.S. beats a chat everytime. UNLESS it is "Dave" in India whom you cant understand a lick of what he is saying. Then give me chat anyday as I have yet to see someone type with an accent Excluding CS Chat from Canada of course, eh? Did you reboot, eh? Ok unplug it now, eh..
I AM JOKING so people in Canada laugh....

[nightstryke]

Isn't the bottom line let the free market decide??

Who asked you?

. I think it was a mistake settling on the exact prices as NetTalk, but time will tell.

I agree as side by side for the same price a human to talk to for C.S. beats a chat everytime. UNLESS it is "Dave" in India whom you cant understand a lick of what he is saying. Then give me chat anyday as I have yet to see someone type with an accent Excluding CS Chat from Canada of course, eh? Did you reboot, eh? Ok unplug it now, eh..
I AM JOKING so people in Canada laugh....

Don't make those Canadians tell you what it's all "aboot!" xD

[Paul777]

If I buy a dozen eggs at the store it's $1.99. If I buy an Egg McMuffin, it's $1.99 what gives? It's made from the same eggs !

Come on... the MJ Plus is a different product. You DO NOT need a computer to run it. The phone service is relatively the same but it costs money to expand networks, improve product, secure area codes/phone#. So yes you might be paying 50% more, but you are getting more. What would you rather have.. the dozen uncooked eggs, for $1.99 or the Egg McMuffin. I'll take the Egg McMuffin !

So let's all agree, the 50% as a percentage is steep, but the cost of all the service behind it also has increased. And sure.. let's face it... Dan is making more money too. But hey.. McDonald's is also making profit on the Egg McMuffin.

[Buzz]

I guess if you don't think a 50% jump in price is much for the same shity NONE customer service is a lot..... So, next year when they jump it up another 50%, will that too be ok.

I think the owner of MJ is a Jack Ass...... If you want to run a business, you offer real customer service, not this crap back and forth garbage.
But, as long as you are willing to pay for this No Sercie company, they will continue to charge you more and more for nothing. Sort of like the people in DC.

I just shipped the MJ+ back. They can sell it to someone in this group. Maybe they will charge $99.00 bucks for it after the 1st of the year. Hmmm.

[nailgunner]

But, as long as you are willing to pay for this No Sercie company, they will continue to charge you more and more for nothing.

Since they did not increase the $20 renewal price of the regular MJ, and the renewal price for the Plus has always been $30, no one is continuing to be charged more and more.

I just renewed my regular MJ for the 3rd year for $20. No price increase since I've been a customer.

But since I get good call quality I will probably renew again if they do raise the regular MJ to $30 as rumored, since it would still be $15 less than I was paying a month for my old land-line. Much above that and I will test drive one of the competitors. Kind of what free-enterprise capitalism is all about.

To me the main thing is that if either the regular or Plus works for you, $20 or $30 a year for phone service is a great deal. If they don't work for you, it's overpriced at $5 a year.

[Paul777]

I guess if you don't think a 50% jump in price is much for the same shity NONE customer service is a lot..... So, next year when they jump it up another 50%, will that too be ok.

I think the owner of MJ is a Jack Ass...... If you want to run a business, you offer real customer service, not this crap back and forth garbage.
But, as long as you are willing to pay for this No Sercie company, they will continue to charge you more and more for nothing. Sort of like the people in DC.

I just shipped the MJ+ back. They can sell it to someone in this group. Maybe they will charge $99.00 bucks for it after the 1st of the year. Hmmm.

Don't think of it a price increase. Tell me what other product comparable to MJ+ is cheaper? And don't say GV because I need a computer for that. The only other item close to MJ+ is NetTalk Duo as far as I can find. And look.. it's the same price ! Hmmm.. those Nettalk Duo people are ripping off their customers too! Must be a relative of Dan that runs it !

[cell14]

I just renewed my regular MJ for the 3rd year for $20. No price increase since I've been a customer.

But since I get good call quality I will probably renew again if they do raise the regular MJ to $30 as rumored, since it would still be $15 less than I was paying a month for my old land-line. Much above that and I will test drive one of the competitors. Kind of what free-enterprise capitalism is all about.

To me the main thing is that if either the regular or Plus works for you, $20 or $30 a year for phone service is a great deal. If they don't work for you, it's overpriced at $5 a year.

Actually, that 4.8% phony " regulatory compliance fee" is an ordinary price increase, and while it is 'only' $1, it should be mentioned( Dan certainly is fully aware of that, since it brings him a beachfront mansion every 2 years).
It is amazing that nobody here ever mentions it while everybody pays it.
For me MJ is a sort of borderline case, considered the number of competitors, especially GV which definitely beats MJ on price and quality.
The company behind the service is also a consideration for me. For years I admired Dan's criminal energy but lately his cheap tricks and shenanigans became stale and I lost my patience. Any further price increase in any form would mean for me an immediate pull out of my second and only remaining MJ line, especially now when there is a way to port MJ number to GV.

[nailgunner]

It is amazing that nobody here ever mentions it while everybody pays it.

I don't mention it because it's less than the 6% sales tax they could be charging me. And it's less than the crap some of their competitors are tacking on. Including sales tax, NetTalk added $5.11 to this guys $30 annual renewal.

netTALK Phone Service Renewal $29.95
Sales Tax: $2.06
FUSF (VoIP): $2.97
FCC Regulatory Fee (VoIP): $0.07
Total: $35.06

https://forum.nettalk.com/viewtopic.php ... 7&start=20

[Paul777]

How dare these voip companies make a profit! Let's go back to two cans and a piece of string. It's much cheaper !

Better buy your 5 year service package now and avoid further price increases for that time period.

[cell14]

I don't mention it because it's less than the 6% sales tax they could be charging me. And it's less than the crap some of their competitors are tacking on. Including sales tax, NetTalk added $5.11 to this guys $30 annual renewal.

I would not recommend Nettalk any more. They have a better CS but otherwise they pretty much walk in Dan's path and lately they got quite crazy.
MJ could charge FL sales' tax for people with CC billing address in FL, however they could not pocket the money so they do not care.

[ddiehl]

That fact the my computer isn't running 24/7 actually saves money.

[sabresfan]

That fact the my computer isn't running 24/7 actually saves money.

Exactly! Also the chances of needing to contact customer support go way down if no computer is needed. The majority of MJ users that had problems did not have a properly configured/cleaned up computer to begin with.