I bet the MJ folks are having a laugh since the last update.

[Mr_Dasher]

Hi all,

I bet the MJ folks are having a laugh since the last update. (June 9, 2009)

One thing for sure they follow this forum very closely. It's one giant test bed and they're getting it for free. "Let's put this update out there and follow the forum to see what happens."

We all knew it was going to come to this and that they were going to have to make changes. A lot of us have been disregarding the ToS agreement. Virtually rubbing their faces in it. To the extent that I've heard people running small call-centers from the SIP info they've gotten from their Magic Jack. There was even a company that would sell you an ATA device with the MJ SIP info all ready installed - Crazy.

Of course this spoiled it for the rest of us.

Once my final MJ configued ATA is denied access it will be time to move on to other VOIP services and other user forum.

D

[enjoythemusic]

Ummm, as a normal users, using the hardware, following their rules etc am NEARLY at the end of my proverbial rope. The darn thing is not working and i DO know computers (was MS and WinCE certified) and still...

It was working impressively for months... until the 'upgrade'.

[Matt9876]

This just seems silly to me what the hell is the difference between a computer that sits in a corner with no keyboard and monitor and a ATA.


Dans just proving he is the boss and pissing off paying customers,He is also not green friendly forcing folks to pay a higher electric bill just to run the MJ.

[az2008]

This just seems silly to me what the hell is the difference between a computer that sits in a corner with no keyboard and monitor and a ATA.

As far as advertisements you're right. But, in the case of an always-on computer, Dan has control over the client software connecting to his network. He may have some value in that. Especially if he plans to sell an ATA/BYOD service.

Silly or not. The ToS clearly say that users agree to use only the service only with the MJ software and device.

8. License

magicJack grants you a personal, non-transferable and non-exclusive right and license to use the magicJack device and Software on your computer; provided that you do not (and do not allow anyone else to) copy, modify, create a derivative work of, reverse engineer, reverse assemble or otherwise attempt to discover any source code, sell, assign, sublicense, grant a security interest in, or otherwise transfer any right of the magicJack device. The initial term of this license is for one year and may be renewed (for an additional fee) for additional terms of one year each. You agree not to modify the Software in any manner or form, or to use modified versions of the Software, including for the purpose of obtaining unauthorized access to the magicJack device. You agree not to access the magicJack services by any means other than through the Software and the magicJack device

There was no reason to think this should have worked.

Mark

[oldtimercurt]

Mark,

This is all well and good but how about the number of posters who "claim" to be using MJ as intended that are still shut out. Doesn't compute.

As for TC, they don't really violate the TOS since full-time computer with dongle installed.

BTW, so far my ATA is 5x5 after the change. Shut it down after I read about the update. Hooked up MJ on TC and used Stroths to pull current info. User agent was only change a/o 6/9.

There's a lot of reported info that just doesn't add up.

OTC

[az2008]

This is all well and good but how about the number of posters who "claim" to be using MJ as intended that are still shut out. Doesn't compute.

I wasn't addressing everything Dan does. Just the ATA issue.

As for TC, they don't really violate the TOS since full-time computer with dongle installed.

The only thing I can think of in the ToS addressing thin-client use is the following:

11. Advertisements

You also understand and agree that use of the magicJack device and Software will include advertisements. ... You also understand and agree that use of the magicJack device and Software may include certain communications, such as service announcements, administrative messages and newsletters, and you will not be able to opt out of receiving them.

I see room for disagreement over what that means. Does the word "receive" mean physically receive on the computer? Or, Dan's intent that you receive them for the purpose of seeing them?

I think it boils down to the point that Dan has a responsibility to enforce his ToS if it means anything. Until now, people could have said the prohibition on ATAs meant nothing because he took no steps to stop the spiraling use of ATAs.

Maybe the same goes for thin clients. The fact that Dan doesn't take steps to require human interaction at the softphone (or, determine whether the ad server is blocked) could contribute to the interpretation that we only need to receive them physically.

I can see room for debate over the "spirit or letter of the law" as it pertains to that term of service. But, I think it only has as much meaning as Dan gives it. Just like the prohibition on ATAs had no real meaning since Dan wasn't exercising control which was easily applied from his end.

Mark

[oldtimercurt]

Mark, we can agree to disagree about TOS. My real point was what about the "normal users" who claim to use MJ as Dan intended, and seem to be shut out as a result of this upgrade?

OTC

[az2008]

what about the "normal users" who claim to use MJ as Dan intended, and seem to be shut out as a result of this upgrade?

I don't know what to say about that. MagicJack has a history of either working very well, or not at all. I view it as a gamble which may be worth the risk depending on each individual's needs.

I see the MagicJack experience like those WWII navy seamen adrift in the Indian Ocean for days, slowly picked off by sharks. When I use MJ, I know that the number of MJ users who inexplicably encounter severe (and often unrecoverable) outages is large. Large enough to know it could happen to me.

Is it 2%? 10%? I don't know. But, it seems like it's much larger than other VoIP services. Much more reason to keep it in the back of my mind that it's a real possibility.

The problems with this upgrade seem no different than the last upgrade, and the random (yet regular) reports of other problems (like "broken storage").

Mark

[macman4hire]

I have resigned myself to using the MagicJack primarily for a local phone number to be forwarded to a free incoming number I have configured to my ATA. I will renew my MagicJack account with this expectation of use only. For a fee of $20.00 a year it is the least expensive option I have found for a local phone number in my area. All of the other VOIP service providers that I have checked are charging double or more. I am slowly giving the gift of an ATA to all my family members and close friends and helping them setup free accounts for the purpose of calling each other. Several have request help in setting up ATA's for people in their social circles. I have purchase new ATA device for as low $25.00 which is less expensive than a MagicJack. When I have call outside social circle I break at the MagicJack to do so. I also have the option of calling out at 0.01 per minute using one of the lines configured on the ATA using a VoIP service provider. Another option that I can use is a browser based free calling to place calls out. If MagicJack fails tomorrow the only thing I will be losing is my cheap local number. This is a complete 180 for me as I use to be 100% dependent on my for my communications needs. I all that hope is that all the forum members finds a service or combination of services that works for them without breaking the bank. Hopefully MagicJack will listen to the wants and needs of its customer before it slowly destroy its prospects for long term viability.

[Mr_Dasher]

I agree - what's the difference between having a thin client / dedicated computer when compared to running an ATA . But for Dan, us not using the dongle means he's lost control of the financially valuable desktop plus there are those people running offices, call centres, etc. with Asterisks servers - people who really should be using business voip plans. I can't see him making any money from those people.

Anywhoooo

Like I've said in other posts, I thank MJ for being my first introduction to VOIP, blah, blah, blah... but I've also realized that if I'm serious about using VOIP as a communication tool MJ is not the right product. Simple as that.

I have moved on to another provider. I now pay $10.00 dollars a month for my own local number (I live in Canada)with all you can eat Long distance (I'm sure within reason). This company even has tutorials on how to setup my ATA. This is my first day of service and it seems to work fine.

I even don't regret buying two 5 year extended plans for my MJ's. I now have two telephone numbers - One in NYC and the other in L.A. - that will be forwarded to my new VOIP service. 20 bucks a year to have telephone numbers in these major cities is pretty damn cheap and since the numbers are forwarded Dan won't be making very much extra revenue from me.

Later,

D

[az2008]

plus there are those people running offices, call centres, etc. with Asterisks servers - people who really should be using business voip plans. I can't see him making any money from those people.

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that incentive Dan would have to control the client used to connect to his network. The average little guy who uses an ATA may be similar to using a thin client with the dongle. But, allowing that allows the mega users.

Like I've said in other posts, I thank MJ for being my first introduction to VOIP, blah, blah, blah... but I've also realized that if I'm serious about using VOIP as a communication tool MJ is not the right product.

I understand that position. I think Dan's genius was to roll all the complexity and confusing choices associated with other VoIP services into a one-size-fits-all service represented by a physical object you could hold in your hand. The "magic."

Most peoples' eyes would glaze over if they considered choices associated with other VoIP providers. (No charge to users of the same service; different plans depending on usage; free incoming; charges for outgoing; how many phone numbers you need at $2.50 per month; always-on versus softphone).

Most people I know would give up trying to comprehend all the interactions of these choices (and how they compare between providers). The way Dan packaged MJ brought a lot of people on board.

But, like you said... once you're on board you start thinking about how it would be nice to have 2-3 numbers. Or, always-on. Or, softphone only.

It's going to be interesting to see how Dan keeps the simplicity which helps it sell in places like Walmart. But, provide more flexibility for those who feel constrained by the one-size-fits-all nature of MJ.

Mark

[Mr_Dasher]

It's going to be interesting to see how Dan keeps the simplicity which helps it sell in places like Walmart. But, provide more flexibility for those who feel constrained by the one-size-fits-all nature of MJ.

I don't think that Dan will try to cater to others. It would make his business model more complicated for little financial gain. He knows his market - the infomerical crowd. The only devices I see him introducing will be all in one units that plug directly into internet (routers/ooma) or into a computer. Devices that can't be configured.

D

[cell14]

Most people I know would give up trying to comprehend all the interactions of these choices (and how they compare between providers). The way Dan packaged MJ brought a lot of people on board.

But, like you said... once you're on board you start thinking about how it would be nice to have 2-3 numbers. Or, always-on. Or, softphone only.

It's going to be interesting to see how Dan keeps the simplicity which helps it sell in places like Walmart. But, provide more flexibility for those who feel constrained by the one-size-fits-all nature of MJ.

Mark[/quote]


I ( and people I know who bought MJ) was perfectly aware of VOIP but I felt that it was not worth the money. MJ offered an incredible deal and even with the 60 bucks a year extra for a stand alone DSL it still rocks.
Yes, the unability to port was a major problem, also the lack of 3 way calling and one number only. But I knew that when I signed up. The issue here is the long term viability and reliability of the service.
I would not be too concerned about the infomercial/Wallmart crowd, most of them will not renew, they are just feed for Dan.

[Matt9876]

Just to set the record straight I never used a ATA, and as of right now my MJ has never worked better.


Running:HP XE783 computer XP sp3 64MB RAM, MJ dongle.

[gnimsh]

Mr_dasher, what service have you switched for $10 a month?

[Mr_Dasher]

http://acanac.com for VOIP $10.00 per month.

and

http://Vbuzzer.com dedicated number for Fax. for $2.00 per month.

Total $12.00 Canadian.

Acana only offers Canadian numbers and to get that price I had to pay for 12 months in advance. $120.00 for a year with a money back guarantee. The service has been good so far. I switched my entire house over to the new service and my girlfriend hasn't even noticed the difference between this service and Bell.

I may have tried voip.ms because the price was only slightly higher and I liked their user interface but I wanted a specific area code (416) and voip.ms could only offer (647) which is still Toronto but newer and not as recognizable.

Hope this helps.

D

[gnimsh]

That doesn't quite help me as I'm in the U.S. My biggest concern is that I'm going to South Korea in 3 months and I run linux, so I'd really rather not run a VM just for my softphone if I don't have to. I will, but I don't want to. Could buy a little Fit PC thingy that's small enough and run it off of there, but I'm not sure if the MJ will work with an atom processor.

Or I could switch my service entirely, maybe to viatalk or some such thing for a US number.

[gnimsh]

New update: I found this site tonight: http://www.voipo.com They offer monthly unlimited service for $8.25/month (annually) and have sip lines and send you an ATA and all the works. I may have to give that a try.

[kcowan]

I have been on MJ for a year. I use it for outgoing LD and inbound for voicemail. Because people never reach us live, it has remained a secondary service and we have maintained landlines in both our homes.

Had the ATA and WiFi phones been viable options, we would have had multiple MJs and use it for mainstream purposes. But because these were all hacks, we never considered them viable long term.

I guess we fit their mainstream marketing model. All hype and little substance. I never use the softphone (except for the imported phone directory when placing infrequent calls).

[kcowan]

http://acanac.com for VOIP $10.00 per month.

Acana only offers Canadian numbers and to get that price I had to pay for 12 months in advance. $120.00 for a year with a money back guarantee. The service has been good so far. I switched my entire house over to the new service and my girlfriend hasn't even noticed the difference between this service and Bell.

I may have tried voip.ms because the price was only slightly higher and I liked their user interface but I wanted a specific area code (416) and voip.ms could only offer (647) which is still Toronto but newer and not as recognizable.

Hope this helps.

D

Where do you find the available numbers?
Do they offer 604?
Do they support number porting?
How much did your ATA cost, or was it included?
Thanks. I could not find these answers on their site.

[Mr_Dasher]

Where do you find the available numbers?
Do they offer 604?
Do they support number porting?
How much did your ATA cost, or was it included?
Thanks. I could not find these answers on their site.

Hi,

To find the available numbers you have to go to the order section (as if you're going to order) and they will display what area codes are available. It does seem that they do offer a number of 604 options.

They don't support number porting. This didn't bother me because I think the porting process takes a while (a couple of weeks?) so I took this opportunity to cancel my landline and switch everything to my cellphone which has unlimited incoming calls. In through cell and out through VOIP.

You can get packes from them with or without an ATA device included. Of course the package with the ATA is more money. I would advise buying your own ATA so you can get exactly what you want. Mine was around $70.00 CDN.

If you want number porting then you may want to try voip.ms. You'll have to email them directly to see if your area code is available.

D

[kcowan]

If you want number porting then you may want to try voip.ms. You'll have to email them directly to see if your area code is available.

D

Thanks I will have a look.