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30 minuite cutoff - reply from Dan
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JohnnyFreightTRAIN
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:08 pm    Post subject: 30 minuite cutoff - reply from Dan

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry for starting a new thread but I think it's appropriate. If any moderators disagree, feel free to delete this and I will post this as a reply to the already created threads concerning the 30 minute cut off.

My mother sent an email reguarding this to Dan, and I'd like to share it with you all. He replied within 2 minutes of sending him the email!

This was his response:
------------------------------
Hi Elaine
We have had a problem with what we call phantom traffic. Basically calls that go on forever. Inbound calls do not have this problem. These calls were clogging the Network. We are experimenting over the next week on how to cure this. This upgrade has some huge fixes and enhancements. The 30 minutes has already been changed. I will notify customer service of these experiments we are doing. Have a happy Holiday and tell everybody on unofficial Board the same. We are spending huge dollars to make this the best service available.
Dan
------------------------------

This is the original message for those who are interested:

-------------------------------

Hello there Dan,

I'm sorry for bothering you about this, I'm sure you have much better things to do and for that I apologize. The reason I am writing you today is that I am concerned about the new 30 minute call limit that has been imposed since the new upgrade. If you aren't aware of what I am talking about, ever since the latest upgrade all magicjack users have been unable to make outgoing calls that go past 30 minutes. We get disconnected at EXACTLY 30 minutes every time. The magicjack users I am referring to is myself, my friend and every single person on the Unofficial Magicjack Forum. We have all tried your tech support, including myself and have gotten mixed responses. Many people have posted their chat log and it seems your tech support is clueless about this issue. We keep receiving what seems to be scripted responses such as "disable your firewall", "unplug your magicjack wait 30 seconds and plug it back in again" and to "run the upgrade". It is near impossible to convince your support staff that this ISN'T a problem on our side, and that there is nothing wrong with our magicjack other than it limiting calls to 30 minutes, and that this is a problem caused by the upgrade itself. Can you please provide me with some information about this, I just recently bought my magicjack and I was under the impression that we could "talk as long as we want" - as advertised in your commercial. Is this call limit intentional? I sent this to both of your email addresses to be sure you receive my email, because I am unsure which one you use regularly. I apologize for any inconvenience it may have caused you I just wanted to be sure that you received it.

looking forward to your reply,

Elaine. =]

------------------------------


... So I guess we will see how this turns out. Smile
I hope this was fixed.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 minuite cutoff - reply from Dan

JohnnyFreightTRAIN wrote:

This was his response:
------------------------------

We have had a problem with what we call phantom traffic. Basically calls that go on forever. Inbound calls do not have this problem. These calls were clogging the Network. We are experimenting over the next week on how to cure this.


That whole response sounds like BS.

1. If they can identify "excessive use" users (last October) to terminate them, it seems like they could have identified these "phantoms." If someone can login and use their network without being identified, that's a security problem which could have been identified without affecting everyone.

2. "Experimenting?" With millions of live, paying customers?

I don't understand how this company can survive its founder. Very entrepreneurial. An "A" for vision. But, an "F" for running a business.

Heck, just "experimenting" without even notifying tech support so they could intelligently handle the expected result?

I thought it was bad that he doesn't utilize his more devoted customers to act as early adopters (people he could "experiment" on). But, he doesn't even use the support company he pays for.

Mark
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Gregg
MagicJack User


Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 32
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 minuite cutoff - reply from Dan

JohnnyFreightTRAIN wrote:

This was his response:
Dan Borislow wrote:

Hi Elaine
We have had a problem with what we call phantom traffic. Basically calls that go on forever. Inbound calls do not have this problem. These calls were clogging the Network. We are experimenting over the next week on how to cure this. This upgrade has some huge fixes and enhancements. The 30 minutes has already been changed. I will notify customer service of these experiments we are doing. Have a happy Holiday and tell everybody on unofficial Board the same. We are spending huge dollars to make this the best service available.
Dan


That does not look like Dan Borislow's writing. I've seen him post a number of times on other boards (do a google search for more results), and he never puts a space after his punctuation. Not sure who wrote that, but I assure you, it was not Dan Borislow himself.
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Racerbob
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject:

My thoughts are... Lets stop being so darn picky. And lets wait and see if in time this limitation is indeed lifted. And lets try to remember above all exactly what we paid to get our MJ service and compare that to what we were paying each and every month. If MagicJack ceased to work tomorrow, I would not be upset. I am not going to cry over the $46 I have invested for a full year of service. My MJ continues to function great 99% of the time and the fact that I am not paying Time Warner what I was paying them for my phone service makes it that much better.
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 170
Location: Pensacola Fl

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:34 pm    Post subject:

Whats amazing to me and my circle of friends and family (we are all retired Army pukes) is that we have had no problems what so ever since we all got our MJ's 2 months ago. I wonder why we are so fortunate? My wife and I have logged well over 4000 min of use so far this month and no excessive use termination monster has jumped on our backs yet, and if it does ill gladly buy another unit. This is the best money I have ever spent.

I started with vonage when they were new and they had major problems and eventually worked them out, I'll stick with Dan thru his experiments, I'm saving HUGE $$$ and getting to talk to my retired Army buds all I want....Life is Good
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject:

Racerbob wrote:
lets try to remember above all exactly what we paid to get our MJ service and compare that to what we were paying each and every month.


That's true to some extent. But, I really don't see how we can continue to excuse Dan's poor business practices as "but... it's still worth it." I'm not saying it's not worth it. But, the more Micky Mouse business practices, the less that reasoning holds true.

For example, the people who bought 5 years of service a month ago might not appreciate Dan's cruddy business practices. If they knew then what they do now, they might not have *invested* in the company. They don't have a right to point out their disappointment just because they're getting a service for $1.00 a month ($12 a year)?

To me, I can accept less than perfect reliability. And, poor support. I don't expect a lot for $1.66 a month ($20 a year). But, "experimenting" on *all* customers? That's just unnecessary.

I think it's perfectly legitimate that MJ can't survive this kind of behavior when the only excuse is "but, it's still a great deal." I think that's an important point when people consider pre-purchasing 5 years of service. I think business conduct as we *consistently* witness is very meaningful in that regard.

Consistent is the operative word. I could understand a few mistakes. But, everything I see, Dan isn't learning from his mistakes. He may not believe they are mistakes. (As the BBB complaints continue to pile up, and "rip off" reports grow.).

At some point it doesn't matter whether "but, it's a great deal." Nobody will stop to consider it when they search the web and find a *pile* of negative feedback about MagicJack. Reputation plays a very large factor. The way Dan *consistently* shows contempt for his reputation is noteworthy. Regardless of whether $1.66 a month is a great deal.

Mark
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
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Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
Whats amazing to me and my circle of friends and family (we are all retired Army pukes) is that we have had no problems what so ever


In an earlier post you said you got the upgrade today, the 24th. If you'd been upgraded on the 21st, you might have a different opinion.

The upgrade began the 21st. It sounds like the 30-minute limit was undone, or has been in the process of being undone. Most likely, you upgraded late enough to miss the "fun" you imply everyone else must be making up(?).

I'm like you. I haven't had a lot of trouble. But, the people who have had trouble (often due to poor business practices) have legitimate complaints. I think it's serious because people like me, even if we're happy, aren't able to recommend MJ to many acquaintances. I recommended it to a friend. He searched the web. Found the *pile* of complaints, and was a bit unhappy with me for even suggesting he get involved in this drama.

Mark
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 170
Location: Pensacola Fl

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject:

In my area NW Florida they cant keep the units on the shelf at rat shacks and bestbuys even with the bbb report. He is also starting primetime adverts here. People are going to buy as long as the service stays cheap, my wife just walked in with our phone bill and a smile, 21.00 this month....and that was for our broadband yippie no phone to get ripped off for, CALL ME SATISFIED.

I'll gladly put up with Dan's shananagans.... Very Happy Laughing
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
People are going to buy as long as the service stays cheap,


We'll see. I think you're wrong and you know it. There's some level of disruption that an increasing number of people won't put up with. Is it having 4 years sold to them as 5? Is it being "experimented on?"

I know people who wouldn't buy it even without those recent bunglings.

Mark
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
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Location: Pensacola Fl

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:06 pm    Post subject:

ar2008

I'm not implying anything of the sort, I'm stating that my circle of friends have had no problems...nothing more. It's my opinion that this service is awesome for the price and I'm going to aproach the future of it with a positive attitude. Untill I see problems I'll report my success, If I have problems I'll voice them also. I have gladly recomended this servive to many people and all seem quite happy, and I'll continue to recomend it.

I'm a 5 year subscriber and happy about that too, I got the entire 5 years.
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject:

ar2008

for those who choose not to buy it...well...thats there choice, I feel differently than you do about its future. We have that right to our opinions, I fought for that right for 26 years.... Very Happy

LONG LIVE MJ Laughing
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
I'm not implying anything of the sort, I'm stating that my circle of friends have had no problems...nothing more.


So, you're saying that if a large number of people have problems, and those problems are related to egregious business practices, it's not a problem just because it didn't hit you?

For example, do you think it's good to "experiment" on the entire customer base? Affecting many negatively, without disclosing the change in service? Without even warning the technical support group who basically wasted the time of all the affected people who contacted them?

If you want to defend that, I'll be happy to let you. But, don't be surprised if I criticize it. And, that criticizing it doesn't automatically equate to an assertion that MJ isn't "but, it's still a good deal."

ret27m wrote:
I'm a 5 year subscriber and happy about that too, I got the entire 5 years


FWIW: There is a psychological phenomenon called "the investment factor." When an individual has enough invested (emotionally, or financially) into something, it's difficult for them to be critical or objective of whatever it is they've invested in. They have to rationalize, at all costs, that their investment was good (leading to an even greater sense of investment).

Mark
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JohnnyFreightTRAIN
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject:

UPDATE =

I just had a two hour phone call with the new upgrade. Seems to be fixed.
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Darkman90808
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 701

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject:

I have to agree with az2008 about not being able to recommend it to my friends. Already, two of them I used as guinnea pigs, when I first got it, refer to it as Magic Joke and a few less flattering euphemisms.

Word of mouth is still the most powerful form of advertising, both good and bad. I'm willing to hang in there, but I'm an early adopter. I don't know many people who would have had the patience to put up with the echo, bad call quality, etc. as MJ continues their experiment.
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject:

ar2008

LOL 59.00 is not an investment, I already got that money back in phone savings. And I dont see a large number of people having problems considering millions of these units have been sold. And yes experimentation that makes things better is a good thing to me. You choose to look at a more negitive side and I look at a more positive side....again if we all thought alike this world would be a dull place and political discussion would be a bore.....
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
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Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:37 pm    Post subject:

Darkman90808 wrote:
Word of mouth is still the most powerful form of advertising, both good and bad. I'm willing to hang in there, but I'm an early adopter. I don't know many people who would have had the patience to put up with the echo, bad call quality, etc. as MJ continues their experiment.


I agree. I can understand that it's the company's first year. And, that it's been immensely popular. And, it's unbelievably inexpensive. I'd be the first person to defend a few boneheaded mistakes based upon those merits. I've done so in the past.

But, the mistakes have been juvenile, frequent, and no sign of improvement.

It may still be a good deal for nerdy types who are attracted to challenges (like a moth to a flame). And, to those who are in severe financial straits, willing to put up with a lot of rough treatment.

But, that doesn't fit a lot of people I know. They'd rather spend $10-$20 a month on vbuzzer.com or Skype and not have a knucklehead peddling 4 years of service as 5. Or, "experimenting" on them without regard to whether it breaks their service (and they waste 30 minutes with chat support who know nothing about the "experiment.").

Each of Dan's stunts surprises me more than the previous one. I was inclined to defend him earlier. But, this is beyond defendable. He's showing no sign of learning from past mistakes. Let alone caring.

The only thing I'll give Dan credit for is that he was honest (or naive) enough to say he was "experimenting" on his customers. Most businessmen would have been ashamed to say something like that.

Mark


Last edited by az2008 on Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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az2008
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Joined: 20 Aug 2008
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Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
And yes experimentation that makes things better is a good thing to me.


You don't believe it would be better to "experiment" on a control group? Beta testers who volunteer to suffer instability for the purpose of furthering MJ? Instead, you believe all MJ customers agreed to be random beta testers?

IMO, your viewpoint falls within a very small minority.

Mark
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magicjack6666
MagicJack User


Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: special

For me the cut off is 40.00 minutes.

What can I say I'm special Cool
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:59 pm    Post subject:

I dont for a min think this was intentional, and I feel that when they saw the bumble they went to work on a fix. This isnt a perfect model but I think Dan is doing a good thing in creating a very low cost way to communicate. And I'll continue to support MJ and reccomend it.
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az2008
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Joined: 20 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
I dont for a min think this was intentional,


He (or whoever handles his email for him) said it was an "experiment." If it wasn't intentional, they would have said it was a bug, apologizing and promising better quality control in the future. Nobody refers to an accident as an "experiment."

"Officer, I was experimenting with running a red light."

I give Dan (or whoever) credit for that candor. It's remarkable.

ret27m wrote:
I think Dan is doing a good thing in creating a very low cost way to communicate. And I'll continue to support MJ and reccomend it.


I think he's serving an increasingly niche market. (That's a back-handed compliment. A way to say that, if he'd just behave with a modicum of integrity, he could serve a much larger market. And it wouldn't cost anything more. Just operating by accepted business standards.).

Personally, I'd suggest he sell it to Google or Walmart for whatever he can get before he wrecks it with the bad reputation he's creating.

Mark
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:12 pm    Post subject:

Again I dont think they woke up and said HEY lets cut everyone to 30 min calls, and again improvement sometime comes with a little cost. I could care less who owns it as long as it saves me money. Thats my bottom line, I've been ripped off by the phone company far too long.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
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Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:22 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
Again I dont think they woke up and said HEY lets cut everyone to 30 min calls,


I wasn't there, but just reading Dan's (or his email mistress's) response, it sounds like it was intentional. He says what the problem was they were trying to deal with, and that the 30-minute thing was part of the solution (which they backed out, apparently due to miscalculating the affect it would have).

I don't see any other way to read it. And, again, I'll give whoever it was credit for their candor. I can't imagine a businessman operating a business with such disregard to quality (using all his customers as beta testers) and then basically admitting it.

However, after giving credit, this fits a common pattern for Dan. Poor business practices and apparent obliviousness. Dan's like Apple's Wozniak. He needs a Steve Jobs to turn his idea into something more than he can by himself.

ret27m wrote:
and again improvement sometime comes with a little cost.


That's true. But, he could minimize that cost just by enlisting volunteers (people like *you* who want to see MJ improve, at a personal cost) to be beta testers. Those people who could receive the update on 12/21 and provide feedback before it's pushed to everyone else.

He could inform chat support that he's making a *major* policy change (30-minute cutoff, without warning) and tell them how to handle it.

These are *small* things. It's not like asking for 100% uptime. Or, never having an echo.

I think the difference betwen you and I is that I'm able to say that after all these missteps "it's still a good deal for me, and perhaps many others." You're not capable of saying anything is a misstep. It's just a good deal, and that's all that matters.

That's why I brought up the topic of "investment factor" and how it can cloud one's objectivity.

Mark
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lcompton
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Exton, Pennsylvania, United States

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Calls Are Still Termating at 30 Minutes...

Good evening and MERRY CHRISTMAS! Very Happy

I just now completed an outbound call test on magicJack, which resulted in the call being forcibly terminated at 30 minutes.

For those of whom may be correlating demographic data, I am in the Philadelphia metropolitan area.

I hope magicJack sorts this out soon. It's very worrisome for me to have calls forcibly terminated at 30 minutes.

Thank you. Smile

Lisa Smile
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:33 pm    Post subject:

You are now over stepping your bounds by saying:

"You're not capable of saying anything is a misstep."

You have no idea what i'm capable of or not capable of. Dont make this personal just because I dont agree with you, please keep remarks like that to yourself, I would NEVER suggest or say anything like that to you.
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az2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
You are now over stepping your bounds by saying:

"You're not capable of saying anything is a misstep."


Sorry. I just haven't seen you say anything is a misstep. It's all about how it's a good deal. (Perhaps motivated by having recommended it to so many people, and having bought 5 years, etc. The "investment factor" which can make things personal.).

So, would you say that "experimenting" on the entire body of customers, affecting the level of service they expect, just to "experiment" is a misstep?

Mark
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject:

There you go again ASSUMEING:

""(Perhaps motivated by having recommended it to so many people, and having bought 5 years, etc. The "investment factor" which can make things personal.). ""

You have no idea what motivates and what does not motivate me, you dont even know me but you feel you can say how I'm motivated and what I'm capable of.

We have different opinions thats where it ends. Once again PLEASE dont tell me how I feel. You dont have that right just as I dont have that liberty with you.
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az2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
There you go again ASSUMEING:


So, would you say that "experimenting" on the entire body of customers, affecting the level of service they expect, just to "experiment" is a misstep?

Mark
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ret27m
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:16 pm    Post subject:

"" the entire body of customers"" is your words, his letter did not state the level of experimentation and as I said before I dont think his intention was to create this level of havoc. Since I was not there I'll give him the benifit of the doubt just like I'd give to anyone. I wont assign guilt without knowing the whole story.
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az2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:27 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
"" the entire body of customers"" is your words, his letter did not state the level of experimentation and as I said before I dont think his intention was to create this level of havoc. Since I was not there I'll give him the benifit of the doubt just like I'd give to anyone. I wont assign guilt without knowing the whole story.


Like I said. You don't seem to be capable of saying "it's a good deal, but..." Which is unlike most people who speak to the negative implications of MagicJack's business practices, and who can say "but, it's still a good deal."

He said it was an "experiment." He didn't notify the support group of his "experiment." He said it's been rolled back after 4 days. But, Lisa just posted that she was cut off after 30 minutes.

And, this was just 30 days after selling 4 years of service as 5.

Which was just 30 days after terminating "excessive use" customers without any warning, or explanation, or informing the tech support group of what to expect.

If you don't see missteps in any (let alone, all) of the above, then I have to believe it's due to an "investment factor." The inability to be critical or objective because you've recommended it to so many people, and purchased 5 years, and defended it so heavily. Admitting any flaw would create a conflict.

Mark
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject:

You can be rude all you like by telling me you know how I feel and think, I dont agree with you and it rubs you the wrong way. I will not agree with you for the sake of it. I have my right to my opinion, the last time I looked I lived in a free country.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
You can be rude all you like by telling me you know how I feel and think,


Sorry. Wasn't trying to be rude. (Rude is calling Holman at 2am.). Just pointing out that you have been unable to say "it's a good deal, but...". (And, speculating why.).

A lot of people are capable of expressing exasperation with MJ (even if it's just *empathy* for others who've been affected), and say "but, it's still a good deal."

I don't see that kind of balance with you. It's more like a profession of faith. Sales at Rat Shack. A million flies can't be wrong.

Mark
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ret27m
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:59 pm    Post subject:

You want me to go against my belief and go negitive when I've had no negitive experiance. I WILL NOT do that. I stand by my belief, if some feel its been a negitive experiance thats there opinion and I respect that. I totally respect your opinion even tho I feel you dont respect mine.
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strndedinalska
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 21 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject:

az2008 wrote:
ret27m wrote:
People are going to buy as long as the service stays cheap,


We'll see. I think you're wrong and you know it. There's some level of disruption that an increasing number of people won't put up with. Is it having 4 years sold to them as 5? Is it being "experimented on?"

I know people who wouldn't buy it even without those recent bunglings.

Mark


I received the same response after airing the same concerns on the experimental issue. My letter stated that there are many, thousands, millions if the MagicJack numbers are correct as to the number of subscribers, who resent finding out about "enhancements" by accident. Even more important, we also resent being told a different story each time we ask the same question, "What did you "fix" this time?" I love my MagicJack, but I refuse to be told how to use my monthly allotment of minutes be it 30 minute increments or whatever. Give us a set number and then we'll figure out how we need to space out our use. I personally use less than 500 minutes a month so I shouldn't have any issues whatsoever. Those who use a little more might have to do a little more calculating to spread their allotment around.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:58 pm    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
I totally respect your opinion even tho I feel you dont respect mine.


I don't know if it's a matter of respect. It just doesn't seem to be reasonable to say nothing negative is happening as long as it didn't happen to me. Or, that any egregious business behavior, however self-destructive (to MJ's reputation) isn't serious.

Most people who've been unhappy with various MJ shortcomings still say "but, it's a great deal." I don't see that kind of moderate viewpoint from you. It's all about how MJ is wildly popular; flying off the shelves; nobody you know has had a problem. That seems like head-in-the-sand behavior. As imbalanced as the telemarketer who filed a rip-off report, unable to admit that even after being terminated for "excessive use" she still got a good deal, and would have gotten a good deal by purchasing 5-10 MJ units to spread the usage across (although she might have been out of business for a day or two when Dan chose to "experiment" on his customers. <wink>).

Mark
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RDHeinz
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:02 am    Post subject: Sheeesh!

OOOOOHHHHHH Surprised I'm being Experimented on
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 170
Location: Pensacola Fl

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject:

ar2008

You arent going to brow beat me into to agreeing with you, myself and the folks I call have not had any thing happen to us, we have all had a great experiance from MJ, I'll not bad mouth it until I see problems. You do enought negitive reporting for both of us. I dont share your opinion and if I change my mind you will be the first person I contact.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Calls Are Still Termating at 30 Minutes...

lcompton wrote:
I just now completed an outbound call test on magicJack, which resulted in the call being forcibly terminated at 30 minutes.


It was reported by someone else in another thread that restarting MJ may be required to pickup the alleged change (rollback of the 30-minute "experiment").

If it were me, I would power everything down for at least 15 minutes. I've read stories of how MJ's servers store a copy of a user's profile. They will delete it after 15 minutes of inactivity. Then pick up a fresh copy upon new activity.

There has been one report that there may still be a limit. "Tloe" reported being cutoff after one hour. http://www.phoneservicesupport.com/post27220.html#27220

Mark
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject:

ret27m wrote:
You arent going to brow beat me into to agreeing with you, myself and the folks I call have not had any thing happen to us,


That's fine. You can have the distinguished honor of defending:

1. Unannounced service terminations, without even warning tech. support of the policy change (thereby wasting the customer's time for 3-4 days as tech. support told terminated customers they hadn't been terminated).

2. Selling four years of service as five.

3. "Experimenting" in the Production environment, on live customers, on a *broad* level, without any announcement. And, without even informing tech. support, resulting in wasting customers' time as they contacted tech. support and were told there was *definitely* no 30-minute limit.

I just think your inability to criticize anything diminishes the praise you sing for MJ. If I were considering using MJ, I would take it with a grain of salt. It doesn't seem balanced.

But, you are a good soldier.

Mark
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 170
Location: Pensacola Fl

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject:

Laughing You can try and diminish me as much as you like, let your rudeness and ignorance flow, I'll stick to my opinion and I have had NO problems to date.

I doubt you even know what a soldier does so leave that sarcasim to yourself.
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noodler2
MagicJack User


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I've read stories of how MJ's servers store a copy of a user's profile. They will delete it after 15 minutes of inactivity. Then pick up a fresh copy upon new activity.

You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:08 pm    Post subject:

noodler2 wrote:
Quote:
I've read stories of how MJ's servers store a copy of a user's profile. They will delete it after 15 minutes of inactivity. Then pick up a fresh copy upon new activity.

You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.


I read it on this forum. I don't remember who it was originally from, but it struck me that they knew something about it. There used to be some people who participated who seemed to have some inside knowledge, like Stewart.

If I were facing the prospect of 3 hours with chat support, I would shut everything down for 15 minutes just to see if it made a difference.

Mark
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lcompton
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Exton, Pennsylvania, United States

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Outbound Calls Now Forcibly Terminating At 60 Minutes...

Good afternoon and MERRY CHRISTMAS! Smile

I just now completed another outbound call test with magicJack. I was absolutely thrilled that I made it past 30 minutes until the 60-minute mark rolled around and my call was forcibly terminated. Bummer. Sad

I did reboot my magicJack dedicated telephony servers (I have two magicJacks), but I did not wait 15 minutes, which doesn't make sense to me without factual technical justification.

During the test, I received an incoming call from a girlfriend, which I ran concurrent with the test, the test call was placed on hold and still streaming while I was on the telephone with my girlfriend. After I hung up the incoming call, I was able to flash back to the original outbound call test, which was still running seamlessly. (By-the-way, I really like the music-on-hold feature.)

The forced call terminations are disappointing to me. I'm hoping that this is only a temporary restriction while magicJack works out their network capacity issues (or runaway phantom call issues or whatever it is that precipitated this restriction) so I can go back to enjoying my magicJacks.

Forced call terminations in a telephone service are no good to me at any price. Two scenarios that make this a deal breaker for me are when I'm on a business conference call and when I'm on the telephone with some customer service center (often times when I can end up in a hold queue for 20 minutes or more.)

I'm not expecting magicJack to communicate this call restriction in their marketing literature or terms of service (even though they have a fiduciary obligation to do so.) But, at some point I'm going to need to replace this telephone service with something else if the outbound call restriction proves to be permanent.

Thank you.

Lisa Smile

P.S. Now, I'm going back to playing with my Christmas present, which is a totally awesome guitar (see below)! Very Happy

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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Outbound Calls Now Forcibly Terminating At 60 Minutes...

lcompton wrote:
Two scenarios that make this a deal breaker for me are when I'm on a business conference call and when I'm on the telephone with some customer service center (often times when I can end up in a hold queue for 20 minutes or more.)


My business conference calls use a toll-free bridge. I suspect most customer service centers are toll-free. As a workaround you could use skype or vbuzzer.com. $10 to fund a pay-as-you-go account. And they let you call toll-free numbers for free. (I know Skype does. I'd have to perform a test with vbuzzer just to make sure. It's been awhile since I used it with a 800 number.).

But, I agree, this is really becoming an unprofessional service. I doubt the "phantom" traffic excuse. If they can't identify who's using their network, they have bigger problems than a lot of alienated customers (who had been MJ's biggest fans). They should have been able to force calls offline that they couldn't identify. Impacting *all* your customers is crazy (if that was really the reason).

Even if Dan lifts this limit (which appears to be an historic first for the industry), the service's value has sunk a great deal. No one will ever know what goofy change Dan may introduce next.

Of course, it's always possible Dan's excuse isn't really the issue. It could be oversold capacity. Just a temporary limit to guard against heavy Christmas usage (especially if recent purchases were for gifts). I could understand that as a legitimate business practice. But, it would have been more professional and respectful to announce it, and the reasons for it. It would have been a net positive to say "Due to overwhelming demand... Rest assured we are working to increase capacity and provide the excellent service you expect."

I guess that's what bugs me. Dan acts like his customers don't expect anything. I don't see how that can be a successful business practice. It pits him against his own low prices, because it's the low prices that outweigh his practices.

Mark
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lcompton
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Exton, Pennsylvania, United States

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Outbound Calls Now Forcibly Terminating At 60 Minutes...

Good afternoon, Mark. (Actually, it might still be good morning where you are.)

az2008 wrote:
My business conference calls use a toll-free bridge. I suspect most customer service centers are toll-free. As a workaround you could use skype or vbuzzer.com. $10 to fund a pay-as-you-go account. And they let you call toll-free numbers for free. (I know Skype does. I'd have to perform a test with vbuzzer just to make sure. It's been awhile since I used it with a 800 number.).


Thank you for the Skype information. I've been thinking that Skype may be a good replacement for magicJack. So, I'll begin looking into it more closely this weekend. It is true that the customer service center calls that I make are typically toll-free, but there are exceptions. My business calls to conference call bridges are typically toll-free as well. But, sometimes, I do make business calls to non-toll-free numbers, which would be affected by this outbound call restriction problem.

The worst of it is that I am actively looking for a good job. Imagine the scenario where I call a prospective employer for a telephone interview only to have my call forcibly terminated at 30, 60 or whatever number of minutes. That's a stressor I can live without. The forced call terminations won't do for me no matter what magicJack costs. It's just not workable in my lifestyle. I'd rather pay more for my annual licensing fee than deal with the forced call terminations.

az2008 wrote:
But, I agree, this is really becoming an unprofessional service. I doubt the "phantom" traffic excuse. If they can't identify who's using their network, they have bigger problems than a lot of alienated customers (who had been MJ's biggest fans). They should have been able to force calls offline that they couldn't identify. Impacting *all* your customers is crazy (if that was really the reason).


I'll refrain from lambasting magicJack for their marketing and business practices. I've been around long enough to have been burned by a number of Fortune 500 companies who don't give a hoot about me or the impact of their decisions on my life. So, as far as I'm concerned, anything magicJack does that's not nice just puts them in good company with the big boys.

Right now, my focus is on what's next for me. Skype looks like a good option. I'm resigned to not going back to my old Verizon setup because it just wasn't a good value. It took magicJack to push me far enough to think about alternatives. So, I don't regret abandoning Verizon. That was a good move.

The other factor is liquidation of assets. I'm pretty confident that I can recoup my investment on my Thin Client and inexpensive laptop that I picked up off of Craig's List. But, what about the magicJacks themselves? Can they be re-initialized to pre-registration status and sold on eBay? Or, do they get discarded when the service runs out? Thankfully, I never did get around to purchasing the five year extension on my second magicJack. Gosh, I wish I knew about the call restriction plans before I purchased that first five year extension a month ago. Oh well...

Thank you.

Lisa Smile
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Outbound Calls Now Forcibly Terminating At 60 Minutes...

lcompton wrote:
Thank you for the Skype information. I've been thinking that Skype may be a good replacement for magicJack.


I can't say anything about Skype as a replacement. I was just mentioning it as an inexpensive way to call toll-free numbers. I believe vbuzzer.com also allows free calls to toll-free numbers (after paying $10 to fund the account).

If I were considering replacing MJ (which increasingly looks like I may), vbuzzer.com looks good to me. They sell US phone numbers for about $20 a year. That's pretty inexpensive compared to other services. $0.015 per minute calls (or monthly plans). If someone doesn't make a lot of calls, and/or if they primarily call toll-free numbers for business conference calls (and, if I'm correct about vbuzzer not charging for that), a person could get by with about $20 - $30 a year. (For me, that would be the case. I don't make many calls.).

But, vbuzzer doesn't have a lot of US area codes.

voipvoip.com looked good to me. They have an ATA service. But, it seemed like their US phone number was expensive. ($7 per month?).

Good luck.

BTW: If you're learning to play guitar, http://www [dot] learnandmasterguitar [dot] com/ is really good. You can often find it on sale for $100 off.

Mark
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ret27m
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 170
Location: Pensacola Fl

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject:

Icompton

I also will refrain from lambasting at this time as MJ has not hic-up'ed on me since my purchase. Since last night I have had well over 40 people PM me with who is/isnt getting time limits. I certainly didnt expect that much activity, I was going to go in and edit my post on how different area codes are affected but I lost the use of my left arm in Iraq and guess what...lol I'm left handed, so alot of typing is a major hassle. My map board to date shows no rhyme or reason as far as location is concerned but as far as percentage of people who are affected it seems roughly 80% are NOT affected and 20% ARE affected.

That leads me to believe that this is "hopefully" not permanent. If it does become permanent I'll use the service untill it dies, thank goodness to date I am ahead of the game as far as investment, I've saved more than I've lost.
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DonMan
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject:

I think the experiment is "Let's see what cutoff time we can get away with". Darn, customers are complaining too much about 30 minutes. "Let's try 60". Twisted Evil
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lcompton
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Exton, Pennsylvania, United States

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject:

Good afternoon, ret27m.

ret27m wrote:
Icompton


F.Y.I.... It's L as in Lisa, not I. So, lcompton.

ret27m wrote:
I also will refrain from lambasting at this time as MJ has not hic-up'ed on me since my purchase.


My history with magicJack exceeds eight months now. I wrote a series of extensive reviews about my experiences in the spring and summer. I've been a magicJack fan until this call restriction business. The outbound call restrictions finish magicJack for me. But, I will certainly wait a bit to see how this plays out. No one in this forum appears to have any concrete answers on where this story ends.

ret27m wrote:
Since last night I have had well over 40 people PM me with who is/isnt getting time limits. I certainly didnt expect that much activity, I was going to go in and edit my post on how different area codes are affected but I lost the use of my left arm in Iraq and guess what...lol I'm left handed, so alot of typing is a major hassle. My map board to date shows no rhyme or reason as far as location is concerned but as far as percentage of people who are affected it seems roughly 80% are NOT affected and 20% ARE affected.


Thank you for your service to our country.

I appreciate the demographic data. As I stated previously, I am hoping that this is a temporary move on magicJack's part to manage call traffic until a more sustainable (and customer-appealing) solution is in place. I do wish the magicJack folks were better at communication with the customers though. (Hey, Dan, if you need a professional writer on a part-time basis to write customer communications, I'm available. Virtually everyone well-acquainted with me tells me that I write well.)

ret27m wrote:
That leads me to believe that this is "hopefully" not permanent. If it does become permanent I'll use the service untill it dies, thank goodness to date I am ahead of the game as far as investment, I've saved more than I've lost.


We can only hope that the call restrictions are temporary.

Thank you. Smile

Lisa Smile
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emiliomcol
MagicJack Expert


Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject:

Hello yesterday nigth i spoke with one of the supervisors of tech chat of magicjack and they told me that the 30 minutes limist maybe last over the holydays, i was having 30 minutes drops of yesterday but in my calls today i have no limits jejej... Laughing
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lcompton
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Exton, Pennsylvania, United States

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Outbound Calls Now Forcibly Terminating At 60 Minutes...

Good afternoon, Mark.

az2008 wrote:
I can't say anything about Skype as a replacement. I was just mentioning it as an inexpensive way to call toll-free numbers. I believe vbuzzer.com also allows free calls to toll-free numbers (after paying $10 to fund the account).


No worries. I think I found the toy that I want. This thing is awesome because it works with Skype over WiFi, which I already have at home.

I can easily fund the setup of this gadget with the liquidation of my magicJack gear.

az2008 wrote:
If I were considering replacing MJ (which increasingly looks like I may), vbuzzer.com looks good to me. They sell US phone numbers for about $20 a year. That's pretty inexpensive compared to other services. $0.015 per minute calls (or monthly plans). If someone doesn't make a lot of calls, and/or if they primarily call toll-free numbers for business conference calls (and, if I'm correct about vbuzzer not charging for that), a person could get by with about $20 - $30 a year. (For me, that would be the case. I don't make many calls.).

But, vbuzzer doesn't have a lot of US area codes.

voipvoip.com looked good to me. They have an ATA service. But, it seemed like their US phone number was expensive. ($7 per month?).


For me, a pay-as-you-go service is going to be the next best thing to magicJack's pricing model. I want to avoid monthly fees as much as possible since my month-to-month telephony consumption varies.

az2008 wrote:
BTW: If you're learning to play guitar, http://www [dot] learnandmasterguitar [dot] com/ is really good. You can often find it on sale for $100 off.


As you've seen me mention before, I am financially challenged, so paid guitar lessons are pretty much a luxury I cannot afford. I'm going to exploit freely-available on-line resources as much as possible. There's a ton of decent material on YouTube and someone sent me two very good links that I have found useful. They are Chordie and MusicMoose.

Thank you.

Lisa Smile
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